Interview with Dr Susan Fay and Josh Nichol

Interview with Dr Susan Fay and Josh Nichol.
This is not my first time interviewing these two amazing people, so I was so excited when I announced a joint interview with Dr Susan Fay (from Colorado) and Josh Nichol (from Alberta Canada) . . .  they certainly didn't disappoint.

An in depth conversation from both parties that will give you food for thought, whatever your beliefs and who knows, it may lead you to your own insights and realisations about yourself, as well as your horse.

So sit back, relax and I hope you enjoy this episode just as much as i did making it.

Susan and Josh are well known in the horse world for their individual unique way they approach working with horses.

This was a great opportunity, for two professionals to come together and share some of their thought provoking wisdom.

A fun, interesting and informative get together, with two wonderful people and their understanding of horses.

For any further information about my guests please visit their websites below.
https://www.drsusanfay.com
https://joshnichol.com/

Interview: video version
https://fb.watch/ctxu-xl0yF/
https://youtu.be/AgF5f_rJI9g

Video version (alongside applicable podcasts) can be viewed on facebook and YouTube.
https://www.facebook.com/equinevoices.co.uk
https://www.youtube.com/@equinevoicesuk
https://www.instagram.com/equinevoices.uk

Contact Ronnie.
mailto:equinevoicesronnie@gmail.com

Transcript

Ronnie: 0:11

Welcome to echoing voices my name is Ronnie I am so excited to have a joint interview with Dr. Susan Fay and Josh Nichol. They can introduce themselves for those of you that don't know who they are and if we have any questions, we'll get back and answer the questions if we can but I want to come on and have a little chat first. Okay. So I should bring them both in and Dr. Suzy will introduce herself. Hi guys.

Susan: 0:38

Hello. Thank you, Ronnie.

Ronnie: 0:42

You're welcome Susie, would you like to go first?

Susan: 0:45

For those that don't know me, I'm Dr. Susie Faye I wrote a book called sacred spaces, communion with the horse through science and spirit. And in that book, I really talk about how, if we change ourselves, we can begin to change our horses and even the relationship with everyone else in our life. So that is my dedication. I've worked mostly in the energy field and with relational principles from psychology. So I was a horse trainer for many years, so I bring that piece of it into, just making everything easier for both us and our horse.

Ronnie: 1:19

Thank you, Susie. That was lovely. Josh, would you like to go next?

Josh: 1:23

Sure yes my name is Josh Nicole and I have pretty much lived my entire life with horses. I studied at university as well, I got a science degree with concentrations in biology, economics, and environmental studies, and that kind of developed within me a mind for more of a scientific perspective, but I'm also a very feely person. Relationship has always been my goal. So then what that's developed within me is this, this desire to understand what it means to be in relationship, but then to also honor how the horse moves, how the horse looks at life. Not necessarily that I studied that piece in university, but it gave me an eye to understand how to look at something from a more biological perspective and then in my work I've developed something called relational horsemanship, which is just this principle of really understanding what, what is it for a horse to be in relationship with us and what does it for us to be in relationship with them? And this has become kind of my life's work in the personal development of myself. And then constantly seeking to just understand more. About what horses need and that so much of what they are presenting in relationships with us is a demonstration of their needs. So changing our lenses, understanding how to look at a horse from a different perspective in a way that deepens relationship instead of creates conflict and confrontation. And then now I've just seem to be brought into a light to share that information with people in a variety of ways through teaching clinics and an online platform. And that's where I am today.

Ronnie: 3:03

Thank you, Josh would you like to tell the viewers that you and Susie and she had the chance to meet a little while ago.

Josh: 3:09

For sure it's been great actually I guess there's been twice now Susie that we had to chat the first time was cause we didn't really know each other in the beginning. We both heard of each other through variety of forms, but then we had a zoom coffee, which was awesome and we got to share a little bit, but then when I was at the expo in Colorado, Sue was able to come and we were able to just the way the day worked out, we were able to sit and spend over an hour. Yeah, it was quite a bit of time. And it was just kind of set aside, which was beautiful. So we really got to share and personally. Recognize the same heart for, for horses. And obviously we're coming at things from a different experiences and I personally was able to just feel such a consistency in the heartbeat behind about what we're both trying to do. So I felt like it was just an amazing conversation and I left there fulfilled.

Susan: 4:04

If I can add to it. It's interesting when you meet somebody that's on your same wavelength, you know, and it's beautiful because I think both of us came from that very scientific background. Cause I was an environmental scientist, interestingly enough, all these very similar things that we have together and we went different pathways. You know, I was a rancher, I did environmental stuff. And then I was training horses, you know, all these different things that we did that were very similar to each other. And we, we came to kind of the same conclusions at the end. And I think that's, what's really interesting is that we all have different journeys, but we can arrive at the same place through a whole different pathway and just honoring everybody's pathway to where they get to. I think it's just beautiful and I felt like after so many years of not finding people that would listen to these. Perspectives on how to interact with horses and all that is to now see it being embraced so much. And especially by a whole lot of, you know, really solid science people that are out there that are saying, yes, here's what we do. And we may do it different and it may not look the same as what you've been doing, but it's no less valid, you know? And if you choose this path, there's people to support you on that.

Ronnie: 5:26

And that's lovely like you said, there's two, two different people from different countries, but yet you can have a mutual understanding and respect for each other and about the work that you do and there's a common ground there, which is lovely. That's why I wanted you to, to get together. I thought that'd be exciting. Okay. So do we have any questions for Josh or Susie or for myself? There's quite a few people that have joined, which is lovely. So folks for everybody, that's watching, you have to bear with us. Cause technology sometimes gets the better of you, so we're just going to go with the flow and hope everything runs smoothly, but it will be exciting, whatever, and we'll just chat away. So if you do have any questions, either Josh or Susie or for both of them, please make sure you say, and then we can direct it to the right person.

Josh: 6:11

I was just wanting to, you know, as Susie was mentioning there, the idea of, you know, how we come from different places and, and that we connect, you know, I feel like there's this kind of universal relational way, that the earth kind of desires to be in flow and connect. So then what it does is it's like what matters then is the heart's desire. And so then it almost doesn't even matter where we come from, but where we come from gives us more opportunity to connect with a variety of people, because then there's, there's kind of like a natural form of connection based on, you know, our information, our education, our learning, but yet there's this way of being together in a way of connecting that can be between horses and people, and it can be between people and people. So then as our hearts desire to get pulled in that direction, we will have to work through the things that have interfered with our ability to be there, which is where there's ups and downs and all of our lives as we navigate that water. But I feel like that's why, you know, we can come from all these different places because as long as the heart is drawing us to that space, Then we will meet, we will connect. I feel like that's the way it is with our horses in that, you know, when you're working a horse or someone gives you information about what you should do with the horse and there's this feeling of like, oh, something's not right. Or, oh my goodness, that speaks to me that there's this soul pull that allows us to kind of keep tracking towards knowing ourselves better and knowing relationship because it's actually a way that the world, the earth desires to be. So anyways, it's just kind of compliments what Dr. Susie was saying earlier, in regards to that we kind of have various ways that we'll kind of start, but we kind of end up finding each other because when the heart is seeking that type of relationship, there is this beautiful path that all of us will walk differently, but will allow us to be able to connect in this earth and it doesn't matter what being it is, which is pretty, pretty cool, pretty cool.

Susan: 8:20

If I can add to what Josh was saying, you know, I think we both came to a place of relational based training or looking at things in that relational way, because if we think about it, a lot of times horses have been put in this category of they're prey, animals, and we're the prey. And so we have to have that type of relationship. But if you think about it, there is a commonality between horses and us, and that's that we're both relational beings. So we're both seeking a relationship. And that's where I meet a horse with is on that term of being a relational, being, wanting us deep relationship and the horses doing the same thing. And so we're finding out how do we speak this common language between the two of us where we can get both of our needs met, you know, I don't like to think of like, I have to meet my horse's needs instead. I think of how do I support that horse in any moment in time when it's struggling, how do I support it? Just as I would support a child, if I had a child and I saw it struggling, how would I support that child by not doing it for them, but by showing them a way to, through it, through the support that they know they've got from me, I'm going to watch you struggle, but I'm going to help you and guide you along the way. And so I think Josh and I are both in that camp of how we deal with horses. We're not going to do it for him, but we're going to show him we're here for you and we'll show you a way.

Josh: 9:46

Yeah, I think often as a perspective of a leadership or this, this conversation of leadership, it's not so much to me of, true leadership is what I embody. And then what I give off because of that embodiment, which then becomes an example and an opportunity for those around me, whether it's horses or people, to be able to have the space to grow and change. And oftentimes leadership is kind of looked at like, you know, you need to make something happen, you need to make a horse, you know, do a thing. And I feel like that really bridges a transition between different styles of working horses and I feel like that's the highest points of conversation about, you know, training shouldn't necessarily be about, I use this technique or I use this technique, but do we observe that the horse when they struggle is struggling because of something they struggle with within themselves. And I talk about that there's some kind of unmet need within them, that they're feeling disturbed or bothered by, and then it kind of makes them feel so anxious and worried. When I see that some people would see that the horse is now being misbehaved, they're behaving poorly, or they're needing discipline or it's there's something within them that they need to shift. They are desiring peace and they don't have it and it's kind of driving them nuts, so to speak. And this is what then creates what we would call behavior. But if you see it from a perspective that the horse is just trying their best to get by and they're not content within themselves. And the goal then is, what needs to be done to support, helping them understand, how did they become content? How do they feel safe? How do they feel better in the relationship versus behavior? This totally transforms your energy and it will transform the way that you administer any antidotes. So to speak in the relationship, because now the heartbeat of how you think changes the way your energy moves, which now builds a path to relationship and connection rather than confrontation and disagreement.

Ronnie: 11:50

It's one of those things that, even if you stumble upon it, you notice it think, oh, crikey what did I do different. And you feel something from the horse or you see them change their behavior and then you start thinking about it again, and the more aware you are about your own emotions and your own energy, the easy is to see, how that changes either a person or an animal that's with you, finding out how much and to what degree that can change, is what you have to play around with. And to me it's like a muscle. You have to use it and work with it to find out what is the scale for you personally? Is that something that you would agree with?

Susan: 12:31

Yeah, definitely. Just to kind of add to all that, so my focus is not so much on the horse. It's like, how do we change ourselves in what are we looking for in the horse? And how do we, how do we feel? I mean, a lot of people and Josh may agree. It's like you come up and they've shut down that part of themselves. And we talk about shutdown horses, but we don't talk so much about shutdown, people who can't experience anymore. And so that's really, my focus is like, if you can't notice and feel and not just look with your eyes, but feel what's going on inside of that horse at any moment, then you're missing part of the picture. And I like to go through with people and help them to reawaken their natural senses so that they can begin to experience the world in a bigger way than maybe they have been for awhile. You know, society has not been kind to a lot of people, as far as you're not supposed to feel you're supposed to just be out there and doing your thing and shut down those feelings. Instead, if we go through and say, feelings are okay, feelings help us make decisions, feelings, believe it or not are the very first thing we get in our brain. And then we make a determination about what to do about that feeling. And that's called a behavior. So if we deny that we have any feelings, what are we doing? Are we just reacting to our environment? The way people think we should? Or are we really in tune and noticing everything in our environment and making changes that are appropriate for that. And so for me, and I'm sure Josh too, it's like, I'm a deeply feeling and I can feel a whole lot of stuff that I don't think people give credit for, but it's only because I've put my attention on honing that sense. And like you touched on Ronnie, it's a muscle that people haven't used for awhile, but it's still there. And if you can start to reawaken that in people, they go, oh I can't feel that. I always go, you can feel it. I know you. You know, and we'll, we'll work through that. And when they can start to communicate through feelings with their horse, that's opens up a whole nother avenue of things that they can do and ways they can support their horse.

Josh: 14:46

I just love that. I totally agree that there's just such a need for people that this work is really about discovering relationship with others, but also just with ourselves and you called it a muscle. This idea of feeling often what I've called it as an organ, it's like feel is an organ within us. It's a thing inside of us. Now, what happens is, is most feely beings having not had their feel mentored in at younger ages or then have traumatic events that they use this organ so deeply in and it impacts us so greatly that now our field gets so connected to these traumatic experiences, negative experiences and that was being used primarily by our self-preservation. So when our feel is activated or the organ of our feel is activated by herself preservation, now are feel will be hot to anything that we think will hurt us, which is then one of the biggest reasons why I felt in my experience that people will close off because now they're so careful using their high form of feel to protect themselves against any kind of. Yeah. So then, well man, how many ways can we be hurt? Well, our feel is going to be ready for that, but by using it and recognizing that it is an organ and that we have trained it towards that, as we begin recognizing that our feel can be used for many beautiful things and that as we go through our inner process. And I just love what you're saying about this idea of really recognizing what's going on within ourselves because that feel that Oregon can be used to feel and connect in any way we desire. We just have to then go through a certain process to relinquish our feel from self-preservation alone and recognize, yes, it can serve that. And I feel like that's very connected to feelings. It's like feelings come up when our, our process has happened a certain way and it produces a feeling. And so this has to be very informative for us. It can then also be used to develop connection and the feelings that come from connection and, you know, so it can be used in so many beautiful ways. And as we begin to honor that we can use that and feel it within ourselves, what happens is we can start getting more in touch instead of wanting to shut it off because it's always focusing on negative anxious, anxiety, you know, these things that are more things we don't want to experience, which then creates this disconnection within ourselves. But just recognizing that it is an organ and as you train it, you can train it to sense that connect to whatever you desire when you become liberated from a more self preserving state. So I'm sure you have something to add to that sue, but yeah that's like there's something within that, that is so important.

Susan: 17:29

Yeah and to just touch on it. Absolutely. It's like, people are not coming to either one of us, I think, because everything has worked in the past and the reason it hasn't worked is because of these things that we hold in ourselves that have not allowed us to grow or to expand or what. So yeah, I think we're both working with people through those things. So it's not necessarily, we're just working with horses, but we're working on the entire relationship. You can't come into a healthy relationship if one or both of the partners are not healthy and then there's all sorts of game-playing that happens in ways to have people, you know, the other person meet your needs, that you can't seem to verbalize or tell them about that you've got this need. So you play a game in order to get your need met. And that's not a healthy relationship. And I think Josh and I were kind of like the counselors now where we're not only doing family counseling, but we've added horses to the family counseling. And when you begin to heal both you and the horse, the horses come with their own bit of defensive stuff from past experiences. And I work on that end with the horses to help them let go of their traumatic events so they can feel again in a healthy way. And when you get, then the person healthier, the horse healthier, then they begin to experience these magnificent relationships where you don't have to have so much effort because you're not constantly wondering what do I do now to get this need met? How, what should I do now? And the horse is doing the same thing. What behavior can I do to get my needs met? And it's never been met. Those are the ones that don't have their needs met. We'll generally shut down then, right? It's like, well, if nobody's going to listen, I'm just going to go into myself and just self preserve here in this state. And the world go around me and things will happen to me, but I won't feel. So the horses do the same thing as we do as far as, okay. I can't handle that much. I'm going to shut down and I just love to really help the horses when I do it. It's like release all that stuff that they've got, because everywhere that they hold attention, it's going to show up in their body. It's going to show up in their behavior. They're going to have an evasion. They're going to have something that happens that reflects to me. Yeah. He's holding something there. How can we help this horse release that? And you know, I, again, don't do it for the horse. I'm one of those people that never enables a behavior. I'm going to say, Hey, I noticed that, what are you going to do? I'm going to hold the space for you to do that in a loving kind way without judgment. And I think that's the same thing that both of us are doing. It's like we are working in that place where, when we're doing this, there's no judgment about anybody's trauma. Anybody's past experiences we're coming now and dealing with what's in front of us. And how do we heal? What's in front of us and I'm not healing it, you know, I hate to use the word heal even because I just step out of it. It's like, all I'm doing is holding a space for this to happen. And maybe saying, Hey, would you try that or, you know, go, go try.

Josh: 20:48

Oh, man my brain is just going I love it. No, it's great. It's great. Cause I just feel like there's just the scientist loves progression, loves process, you know, loves kind of alignment of this kind of leads to that. So talking about needs because I truly feel like there are needs there's needs in us. There's needs in horses. But the question is how do we most impact needs? And I feel like, yeah, the conversation of, if we talk about meeting needs, before we talk about what's going on within ourselves, then you can have a negative attachment to trying to meet a horse's needs and doing it so that you can feel better. So now if your horse feels better than I can feel better, well, this is now a negative attachment to the observation of a horses need. But when you recognize that the greatest empowerments of change with anything around you is to find your own center and, and find your own okayness to meet your own needs within yourself. That, that releases the highest frequency of energy around you, which that frequency sets the tone for things around you to change. So you were saying kind of loosely you know then we'll do this or we'll do that with the horses because that actually isn't even the most important part, which then can seemingly lessen the priority of training because as we've observed, when someone who has an energetic capacity. And a level of aptitude within themselves walks up to a horse. The horse can almost change in their presence because of that frequency. So then all of a sudden now by energetic awareness and energetic priority or focus within ourselves, the changes begin to happen because all we had to do was change the frequency. So then the art is how do we change within ourselves so that we can lay that opportunity out. So then you almost see sequence. So then to the degree that we dive into the inner work dictates the degree that we can change those things around us. Cause what happens when a horse does a thing, it triggers energy movement in us. So that either charges us with an anxiety or a worry or an empathy, or excuse me, a sympathy you know, it'll charge something in us and whatever that charged, if you're unaware of what it charged now, you're actually kind of being led by them losing the ability to be with yourself. So one of the arts is being able to be with yourself and sense how do you want to feel? How would you like to feel so that then you are. Able to control yourself first, because if there is an inability to control ourselves, then it's very challenging for us to lay out the opportunity for something to change around us.

Susan: 23:31

Precisely you know To that point, it's like we came from different places, but it's like, that's what my focus is. It's like emotional fluency in ourselves and the ability to hold that particular frequency that's created for extended amounts of time is what is part of this? First of all, the recognition, I just got triggered, I have people go back, stop, reset yourself, go back, what were you wanting to project in your energy field for you? I never sent a single thing to the horse because like Josh was saying every energy we created ourselves creates a frequency that everything around us is going to notice. So as soon as we change our frequency, we're going to change everybody around us. They're going to notice, especially a horse because it's highly tuned to changes in the energy field. So we have to be aware, what are we projecting at this time? If we go with the horse, when I was saying, I don't play games with a horse, a lot of the games horses play with us is to knock us off our center. Oh, you're not really the leader. I'm a leader internally. Not externally. I'm internally. My stability is my leadership. So if I get knocked off by a horse I'm going to go back and reestablish in myself. I'm the leader in the energy. And therefore I'm going to set the tone of what the energy is here in this moment. And the horse is going to entrain to that. They like to see somebody who is stable and they will, I always call it. Drive-bys a lot of times I'll be there in a new horse. And it's like, I used to play in this game and I go, I don't play games. And the horse will come by and try to trigger me into another emotion because once they can grab my emotion, they got me because they've, they've got control now. And it's like, they'll try to get me off center. And I'm just like, no, I that's a nice try. Don't play that game. And they walk off and sometimes they get really mad when they walk off. Cause it's like, you're not playing by the rules of the game. And I just stand there. I was like, I don't, I don't know how to play the rules. I don't know the rules. You know, I don't know this game, you know, play dumb and I just hold my space and they come back and they may try a couple more times to like, just scare you. Like, no, not really. No. And, and then all of a sudden they go, oh, thank goodness. And you can see like the, them just relax into it going, wow. I tested that person. She didn't waiver. She stayed in that place and I can feel safe with that person. Cause she can be a leader because no matter what I did, she didn't waiver. And that is a skill that, I mean, it's not something you just start with, oh, today I'm going to be this. No, it takes time to establish that, that, that you don't get triggered. Or if you do that immediately, you can recognize it and go back in and get your stability back and whatever energy you're wanting to, to be in. So it's a whole different theory of, I think what leadership in the past looked like was how strong are you in, how much can your body language portray your strength? And I'm like, I'll go out there. You know, I'm five one, you know, and I'm the horse immediately. Doesn't matter how big it is. It's like, whoa, you're not, you're not messing around because your internal strength is really strong and you know where you're going, you know what you're going to do, and you're sure you're going to accomplish it. And that's leadership with a horse to me. And like Josh was saying can happen instantaneously because that's the energy you carry into everything you do.

Ronnie: 27:08

The word trigger I liked that word because when you say it you know that if your energy changes within yourself or an emotion comes up, you know that you've been triggered by something. So I'm not perfect at all, but I'm a work in progress, but I know there's something happens or my mood changes something's triggered me and it can be a small thing or a large thing. And Toots the day, was pushing me, both physically and emotionally, and I'd literally come in from a day at work and when I'm there and my head's full of thoughts and I feed her but I go off and do the field. And she was being a bit pushy and sometimes they would react and I thought, no, I'm just going to do what I'm doing. You can do what you're doing. I'm going to do what I'm doing. And it was a little bit distance with her, not as emotional, less than that's the correct word. So she was like, oh, and she was following me but she was walking around me and she was coming and then she was walking off and I was going, you do what you want to do, I'm doing this and she was getting annoyed because she wasn't pushing my buttons to watch did the week before. And it was so funny because I said right, I'm going down here now Toots and she was like looking at me and then she walked up to me as if to say, oh, so I put my hand out and it goes, there you go. And then I carried on doing what I was doing. So when you talk about practicing what that center is, sometimes I'll just sit on the floor in the field and I'll sit there and I'll close my eyes and I'll do some breathing and if she's at the top of the field sometimes she'll walk down and she'll sort of lower head in that have a little snooze. It was me, but I'm not asking it to do that, I'm doing that for me. And there the moments when she comes to connect, because as you said, the energy is centered, it's balanced and it's calm and she's happy to be there. That's so nice and you open your eyes and you see them, you get excited and you think, oh, and then you feel that energy rising. And it's really funny because the more aware you are and the more you play with it, so many times, the difference feels bigger than it did before. This is what's coming into my head now, so I don't know if this is information from me or external information, but what happens is, so please correct me if I'm wrong, because you're aware of it, the gap you notice feel bigger, whereas before it would just be part of the day. Does that make sense to you too?

Josh: 29:45

Yeah ah man I have so many thoughts again, absolutely as we began to unpack ourselves the space between and the other. There's a richness that grows in our awareness and I think it awakens us to more and I'm I feel like one of the things that in regards to what you were talking about earlier, Sue, just in regards to the conversation. I have begun to look at the conversation as a horse learning us. So what'll happen is they're going to engage us. They're going to feel us because they want to know us. They want to observe what feel we have to give. So they will present themselves energetically, spatially, mentally you'll feel them through your thoughts, through your energies, through the space. And what they're doing is, is they're learning you, which to me gives even more importance to what you were talking about. Sue when you were sharing how important it is for us to not necessarily focus so much on the horse, but to focus on what we're presenting. Because when the horses engage us, they're observing my own aptitude, energetically, and what I would have to provide them. And I feel like that's what horses are doing when it appears that they are pushing each other around in the passture. It's more that they are learning who has a greater sense of themselves and confidence to be able to manage life. And that's what the desire for horses is, is that they would be able to be with and around a creature that has an aptitude, energetically, spiritually, mentally, emotionally, all of these things, that energy flows through all of these pieces. So we can grow and develop in so many ways, energetically, but when they are engaging us, they are learning us. They're feeling us and that can trigger us in variety of ways, but that's just the horses probe to feel us on that level. So it's like, this is something that's very big to unpack but what that's done for me is, is that I've observed because, and I feel like space is such an important conversation because it's often the converse about as an emotional experience in a negative way, but our ability to be within our own space to be within ourselves in a certain way, and then to be in our own space is a great vulnerability, but demonstrates a great level of self-awareness and confidence to just be within ourselves and be within our space that they are authentically connected. Now, a horse can feel us on at a more distant level because they don't have to get so close. So oftentimes when horses feel like they need to get so close to us, it's because a lot of times we're not necessarily resonating outside of our body in a space they can feel. So then they will engage us more, which then goes back to. I think about what you're giving off be within your own space, so that you are presenting something that the horse can feel safe with, that they can feel calm around that your energy would be in some what a greater concentration than the anxiety within them. So it starts to set this beautiful tone and what I've found is by looking at it that way, it drops the emotional interpretation and people, because a lot of times when a person feels like the horse is being bad, or we tone it in a certain way, it kind of causes people to lose their patients at some point and say, just stop it, you know, versus if the horse is still probing and they're still looking, then it's still on me to continue doing the work and continue to resonate my energy into the space. So the horse can feel my intentions, not just stay out of my space because we don't necessarily need the horse to stay out of our space. We need to develop interaction, energetically that we can connect with them and that they can feel us. And then when that happens, Ronnie you said, when you sat in the field and you sat and you got into your breathing and you focused on still in your mind, that is one way to create authenticity that your insights and your outsides became the same. And then all of a sudden you were doing it with such concentration that another being desired to be in that and took on your energy. To me, that is the greatest demonstration of leadership. Now, the challenge is, is then to do that and I call this proactive meditation is to begin doing that in life. That we can actually have that state and we could go for a walk with our horse, or we could ask the horse a thing, but that we could be so self-aware of what it is we're giving off. And I think, I believe Sue that's what you're talking about is that that's like, don't stop focusing on what you want your horse to do, because it isn't the point, focus on what you're giving off in the process. And then, then let the horse experience that, let them feel you they're going to come to you because they're wanting to feel you and they need to feel you. And that should cause you to become aware of yourself, not focused on the horse, because as soon as you focus on what's happening around you generally you'll go back to old triggers. But if you use that to draw you to the work you've been doing, it frees you to liberate yourself to a new mind. And I believe that to be a really important kind of mental shift that I've observed for myself and for others has really been a valuable piece to step forward.

Susan: 34:51

Absolutely. And, and just to add what Josh is saying, it's like you learn this through the horse because the horse is such a great bio neurofeedback machine to where you are at energetically at any moment, it's going to give you information faster than an interpretation from in the office, hooked up to an EEG. It's going to be pretty slow. They're going to have to interpret what were you doing? And then you have to remember what was I doing at that moment? Now the horse is instantaneously telling you where you're at. I think it's just such a great tool, because what you can do is not only as you begin to change there, you know, people ask me, oh, should I just do this? When I'm with my horse? And I'm like, no, this is about how you live your life. Every moment that you strive to create this energy around yourself at every moment of your life and you begin to practice, and then your awareness expands beyond just that time with your horse to the time you're doing anything and you see what your energy does that when you're know where you're at, how it changes those around you and what their attitudes, you know, you can see that people, even if they pretend they don't feel stuff, they can feel the energy and they know people, you don't even have to smile, do anything you're just in that space. And then all of a sudden you notice people have changed. And that's, what's really cool is to know that you've got, I don't want to say power because that seems to be like, gives a little mini population context to this. I am never manipulating anybody with my energy. I'm going to be in my space. I'm going to be doing the best I can at every moment projecting the best that I can, but with awareness. And it's not like I don't get triggered by people, but my job then knowing what I do, it's like, I'm going to take this knowledge from what Josh and I are teaching and I'm going to apply it to everywhere in my life and see how that makes my life different. And my interactions with everybody different because we can't change anybody. We cannot change anybody, but we can change us. And I choose to walk in the world a different way. And it's a challenge. I'm not saying it's not a challenge to go out there and try to be, you know, like, can I just stay in this space and know where I'm at? And as you begin to do this, it becomes how you are, and you can go with the flow and living in the flow is the most beautiful place ever being with your horse in the flow, riding in the flow, interacting with your horse. It's it's beyond words that we can use as human beings. Cause I don't think there's words to describe that place. I think both of us are trying our best to teach people really what we're teaching is the flow and the ultimate expression of this, I think.

Ronnie: 37:53

That was beautiful. It's so funny as you were talking Toots literally it was coming in, I can't remember which but it was Susie and she was saying mixed messages, we get mixed messages. So I was who was listening and trying to ask, what does she mean? So just because I do animal communication and I say this all the time, it doesn't mean to say I get it right with my own horse. Sometimes it feels harder depending on what's going on, but then I get those windows of opportunity and it's not intentional, it happens and it's like, oh, wow that was just beautiful. And like I said, you notice the gaps, you noticed the different. And you said consistent, so she was saying about consistency, but then she said about having both feet in the same place, not having one foot in one world and one foot in another, you need to have both feet in the same place. So to me, I'm interpreting that as be fully where you are be fully present and be fully committed at that time, at that very second to what you're doing. And it should be. As Josh and Susie has said, it should be, where are you? Where are you? So how you feeling? Because you can't change another animal the same as you can't change a person, you can't be responsible for a person only for yourself and that's where you have to pull it back to cause it starts within. She's communicating, but she's also listening.

Josh: 39:21

That's great. Susie explained to us flow and I explained it as the universal language, but there is this language that we can all be within and it doesn't matter if you're a human or a horse or whatever. I think there's different forms of different levels of that communication and flow is the energetic language. It's the way that connection is developed through the movement of energy. And to me that's the place that I desire to be because there's such fulfillment there it's such richness and I think that's because, especially for creatures, that desire connection. When we get into that space with another being, it's more like a spiritual connection. There's a, there's a real richness to that. And so then I think that's where we're drawn. The reason that us doing our own work matters so much is because until we have the ability to become still in the presence of noise, so to speak. So that's where meditation or stillness of mind breath work calms us. And then the second stage is can I then enact my own calmness in the presence of something that is not calm and that can be practiced in life. It can be practiced in the grocery store or in traffic. It can also be practiced with our horses. And so I think that's what you were attesting to when you were talking about the horse kind of coming in and out, it's really about what the horse is doing necessarily, but it's in the presence of that. Do I have the ability to stay calm, to retain my own awareness of self? And this is a question that I encourage everybody asks all the time is when you feel okay. So a lot of times we can get calm and still in the beginning, but then when life starts to hit us, all of a sudden, now we are associating our lack of calmness to the experience or to a person when generally speaking, I know there's exceptions to. Generally, I have the beautiful privilege of feeling how I desire. So if something happens, I have the ability to respond in whatever way I choose. And to me that was a great liberation for me to recognize that then it was like all of a sudden, I can't just blame my horse for what's going on. And I can't blame a person. I now become beautifully responsible and that's a liberated experience. So now I have the ability to say, okay, well, how do I want to respond in this moment? So first of all, we get quiet and we started working on our calmness. And then secondly, I recognize that I can be a thing in a moment and when the horse is struggling and now that's where the greatest form of leadership comes and we enter the universal language because now I can give the horse or I can create in my space, a new feeling, and you do not need your horse to become calm. You do not need the environment to change because if you need that, that's an unhealthy need because now I will try to manipulate the horse to become calm so I can feel better. And this is a negative form of need. There's positive and negative forms of needs. The positive side of that comes when I can get to that place where I am okay within myself and when I am okay, even if the horse is not okay. Then now I can support the horse to be truly okay. Cause I'm not trying to twist or manipulate. And I feel like Sue, that's what you were kind of talking about in the beginning of that. That's like a, it's not disconnected. I'm not disconnected from the horse. There's a great empathetic desire. It's a knowledge when you realize that you are most valuably impacting your relationships by not needing something from them necessarily in its negative form, you unlock the ability to resonate that relationship into a higher form of communication and connection. And to be that to the universal language where we are now in pure states. And that would be my desire with the horses. So then when the horse is reaching for us in our space, I am giving connection. I am giving opportunity, but it's in the higher form, not the negative form. The negative form has already, I feel like. So when you were talking about like, no, I'm not going there because that creates that negative banter, like the back and forth negative banter. But we want to do is get our relationships to a place of the higher form of communication, the higher form of connection that yes, I'm here to be and I'm here to connect and I'm going to do it in a way that allows for universal connections rather than kind of a negative forms of back and forth anyways.

Susan: 43:34

Yeah. Just to add on that, it's like, when I'm in that space, it's like the horse comes over and I'm in nutural it's like, I may block them from, if they wanted to nip at me or something, I'm going to block it, I'm checking in. Did I engage in any way, shape or form to this request he was doing to get me to fight with him. And it's like, I'm not fighting. I don't fight. You know? And so that's my stance and it's in my energy. Like I don't fight and I think talking about, there's so much words of the connection, there's so many different levels of connection. People throw that word out and do they know, or what is it? And when I wrote my book, I didn't use the word connection. I use communion because it's what you're talking about about, it's a higher form of connection. It's beyond connection. It's heart, mind, soul, you know, each other, you know, what each other are going to do. That's communion and to me, that's what I'm striving for. Not merely just a connection and I think that's true in, in our human relationships too. We've like, we've decided because these two people walk beside each other they're connected. They could be totally disconnected from each other, but they're doing the same things and they're doing those things together. But if their communing they know what each other feels. They know how each other are responding at any moment. And that is a higher form just where you're talking about. And I think Josh and I, we use different terms, but we're talking about that same universal place of this is beyond what we've been taught to think about with our horses. And it is so possible with any being is to truly commune with them rather than just connect. And that's probably why people want me to do B clinics or lots of people. I don't want to do that because I can't commune in that way. I want that really intimate communion, which Joshua's, you know what you're talking about. If that's not safe for you, it's going to feel really awful. You're going to reject that you don't want that. And that way you go, Nope. Nope, can't commune, but connection's okay. I can go that far, but I can't go fully into it with the communion. I think we both suffered with, you know, a lot of times I think what are the words to describe what I experienced and there is no human words to describe. What I experienced, like I couldn't even begin to, and any word I used would not fully express what was happening and I'm sure you have that too. It's like, we have this really complicated job of trying to put into words, something that's very complex and complicated with so many different facets in it and then we're adding another species to the mix. I struggled for years. Like how do I even go out there and explain what I do? Cause I can't even explain what I do because it's never the same thing. It's just that human, that horse us together. What are we going to do? I don't know.

Josh: 47:00

Yeah and I love to give the freedom because I know that this inspires people, you know, it's like, wow, man, that's what I desire. I love to think of this the same way I think of threshold. So you know, this conversation with the word threshold, it's like, it's like a line in the worst side they're thinking, or they're not thinking. And you know, being in this type of relationship, the way we're describing it, it's like you're there or you're not and I want just to lightening. So that, that doesn't seem intense for people like it's like, well, I'll never get there because it's like, I have to all of a sudden arrive. Is just a way it's a way of being, but you can have moments okay, Ronnie, you described it. So for some reason you were compelled to go sit and be still and your horse joined you and in that moment, you may have found yourself at a more intensely connected moment. Now you may also have a moment when your horse struggles and you take a breath and you're working in the same way, but you might not be so deeply into the space, but it is the same thing. And it's important for everybody to recognize that any time, this is what I try to encourage my students and myself. And anytime I make some shifts within my mind and body to change my pattern to a more centered, connected way, I am succeeding because you're changing the patterns of your brain. So instead of going into something tense and rigid and old minded, or even just holding tension in our bodies, we take a breath. You're taking a step in the direction of connection into this step towards now, this is really beautiful because now we can say yes, connection would be the beginning, but communion would be a more deeply rich experience in it. So in some moments, maybe all we're going to achieve is connection. Which is great because you're changing your brain patterns from going to old self preserving mentalities to more connected mentalities. And that will always be leading you towards more community-based based states. And that involves connecting more on the universal scope. But in one moment it might seem small, but it is just as big because you're changing your patterns and you're working in that direction. And then the next moment it's, that might seem deep and rich, but just to lighten from people, the moments that are deep and rich, and then the moments that are not are all moving you in the same direction, they're all moving you in the same direction and anytime you're making those shifts, you are doing the work. So don't minimize because you'll see, okay, well, this person talks about this experience. And then while I've never had that experience, I guess I'm not there. It's not like that at all. The more you do the work within yourself and the more you begin to change your brain patterns in the moments. Okay. And that's where I say, I can call it meditation and proactive meditation, whatever you do to develop stillness and you do the inner work and whatever level you can, you're succeeding. And then whatever level you can start then changing that mind frame and perspective with your horsemanship or with people you are succeeding. When you can start enacting that you are succeeding, you are moving in the direction of transformed relationships. So I just want to encourage everybody with that because sometimes you see, you might have opinions about this, but I find that these conversations are so rich and they just draw people. And I think that's super important. It's very important to be drawn to that kind of higher sense of it's actually real this feeling in my soul is real. That voice has a place it's like, it's calling me and then life kind of tells us, maybe that's not true. These conversations tell you that yes, it's true. It's real, there is that space, it's beautiful. And then in every little moment you're being transformed more. So to that perspective, whether it's a small shift, a small choice, a small thought or a big experience, they're all leading you the same way. So anyways, I just wanted to kind of soften the space with that because there would be no desire for anyone to feel like they can't achieve because there seems so far from it.

Susan: 50:52

And just to add to that Josh, I think that I was looking into all of this energy stuff when I was about 12 years old, which is really odd. I mean, talk about like your purpose showing up and you just ignored it. But I studied intensely like everything about how the brain works, the body, the nervous system, all of this, and what, adding that with the spiritual like aspects and what are their perspectives on it. And over the years I've gone through many different journeys, down many different paths and I gained experience on that and I think what you and I are both here doing now is we're in a way streamlining that and going here's a way you could get there without 50 some years, like I did you know that's my job here, I think, is from coming from the university and knowing the science of like the brain and the nervous system and, and psychology and all that and putting that together and going, yeah but the university makes it complex. Like it can't happen. My job is, so here's a very complex concept. How can I pass that down? So that's a very simple thing that you can do and most of the exercises I have people do have three things that they have to do. Just three, you know, everybody can remember three things and those three things, I try to make them as profound on the nervous system in you know, on both us and the horse. So every exercise I have is both for the person and the horse. So you're working on both at the same time, but it's only three things you have to do. So I never want people in their brain analyzing. What should I do next? What are the 52 steps? I don't remember that one. I have to go look, I want you to be totally in your body and not in your analytical mind. Of course. And that's what all my exercises are. Keep you out of your analytical mind, keep you in your feeling body, in that place of knowing yourself that stillness, they have to practice stillness with most of the exercises I do. So it it's all of these things. And guess what stuff, bubbles up when you're in your stillness Your stuff, your horses stuff, bubbles up in the stillness and it comes to the surface. And what do we do with that? We usually find a way to distract ourselves because we don't want to feel what bubbled up the horse will do the same thing. I don't want to feel what bubbled up. And so you know, when it comes to the surface and there's some things we can do to help people get through this. But yeah, there's this whole thing about it. It will take my lifetime, no, just Josh's point, every little thing that you do builds on the next thing. And it's going to build and build and all of a sudden you're going to go, oh my gosh, I can't remember how hard it used to be. Now it's easy. And just speaking and I think Josh would say this too, for myself. I don't regret a single moment of the hard times that I had, because I gained so much knowledge from those experiences, those setbacks, those challenges, those things. And, and I don't want to Rob anybody of that and people will tell me why can't you just make it easy the whole way? No, that's not the point of this journey. You don't come on this journey with Josh and I, if you want the easy route, if you want it to be in a totally different space, when you come out the other end. That's what we're here for. So I don't want to speak for you, but I think that from what you're saying, cause I know what your heart is, Josh.

Josh: 54:37

Yeah, a hundred percent. I feel like I don't believe this way. It's for everybody. I don't know. And I truly feel like for those that are to be unlocked or desire to be unlocked from a more self-preserving way of being, which means that we're just guarding ourselves, we're protecting ourselves, we put up our walls, we don't feel our own space. We disconnect from the world. We're just trying to get by. There are those that would prefer to stay there and their life will be what it is. For those that are destined to be unlocked. If things were simple, if there was no challenges, why would we change anything? We would sit in a half discontent state and it wouldn't pull us. We wouldn't have any desire, but it's when the snow globe shakes that we then have the opportunity to realize that. We couldn't change or we would desire something different we would and I'm not necessarily saying I'm getting into understanding why things happen that happened. I'm not that's a whole conversation in itself, but I mean, when we are faced with challenge, we are faced with opportunity and it's those opportunities that just ask us that simple question. Do I desire something different than what I'm feeling right now? Would I desire something more? And I believe that's such a beautiful question and it always starts with my own space, you know, what can I do within myself to transform my perspective. And as soon as we do that, you become ultimately powerful because now when you can control, I say control,control is a very strong word, but when you can get within yourself to a place where you can be your own guide, that you can direct your own energy, that you can be the director of your own thinking. Now you become tremendously powerful because now you're not controlled by all the things around you. And predominantly we started this conversation based on horsemanship, and somehow it's taken its way to now being more of a universal concepts, because that's truly what it is to both of us, I believe. The goal being, what does it mean to lead our horses? What does it mean to be with our horses? And it means the more we can get to that place where we can recognize that it is not about this bantering interaction, it's not about trying to get the horse to go on the trail. It's about what type of example are you setting for your horse in how you handle the things that come up? So it's more about how do we handle our own way? And that's always the question I ask everyone is the first thing that we can do is recognize what is our way, what is our way, and your way will be demonstrated by what you do with the calmness of your own thinking. How much do you love yourself, your own mind being with yourself. Okay. And then what do I do then? When I interact with the world, these are all really important questions and all with empathy, like not with criticism or harshness, but just to start asking the question, you know, can I be with myself? And then when I am in environments, how then do I authentically show up? Because that to me is what leadership truly is, because then you transform your space and the spider web that is you energetically now starts to team with new energy and new mind and new possibilities. But you know, if we don't do any work within then the old energy is continue to give off the old thinking styles, the old triggers. And the best we can get is what's going on within us. So to me, it's so beautiful and it's so encouraging, I believe because then all of us, all of us can do it. All of us can do it. Right. And as you begin to believe that you have that within you in any moment to transform your thinking, to transform your energy and change the currency of the conversation. I talk about this. Law of intensity, and it says that whomever's energy is in greater concentration in a moment will generally lead. So if my horse is struggling and their struggle is greater than my ability to stay within myself, then I start to struggle within myself. Now it doesn't matter what technique I'm trying to use. I have already relinquished myself to that horse. And that is what I believe is happening when horses are bantering, when they're back and forth, when the horse comes to us and they check on us spatially it is to observe us to know us because they really do want to know, are you a being I can be safe with? Are you a being that allows for a calm space or are you not? You know, when the horses are doing this, it should be these little so you talked about it when you were discussing emotions and feelings. Like these are things to become aware of. It's not bad to have. It's the same with the feelings that come when someone engages you. What did that bring up for you? You know, was it immediately like get out of my space and you hear this a lot in horsemanship. It's like, don't you let them disrespect you, don't you let them, because now we're toning when they engage us that they're when they're searching for relationship. As I would say, they're searching for connection, we say, don't do it. So we're actually now because of mind frames, I talk about interpretations a lot in my work, because the interpretation that you make changes, your thinking changes your energy, and that becomes the limit to the depth of the connection. But if you transform that and you can see that differently, now you have the ability to resonate that at a higher level. So then that becomes the ultimate power, the ultimate beauty in relationship is that we fully become aware of the power that we have within ourselves. And as we, as we kind of give over to that mind than almost anything around us starts to shift.

Susan: 1:00:12

Thank you josh, that was in-depth and well-spoken both of you Susie and Josh. As you were talking, this was like a collective message and it was basically, we don't understand why you would hurt yourself, but that sounds like just a few words, but the feeling with that phrase that they just give me is, they see the confusion and they see the misunderstanding and the hurt, and they don't understand why we do that to each other and then we do that to them, unintentionally at times and they don't understand that. As I'm explaining this, it's almost like there's a council of energetic horses, I see them as horses but it's energetic and they are jointly saying this from their hearts. Because they feel the pain of what we are trying to do when we're in that place and they are trying to reach us but we make it difficult. I'm Feeling really emotional as I'm getting this, I'm sensing it, but they're saying it very, very strongly, but it's not like strong firm, it's strong in their being in their essence and it's beautiful. And they so want for us to feel it as human, they want us to feel what they feel when they're in that place, as a herd and as a group of horses. They want us to feel that. So when they're communicating with me, it's more the knowing. So I can communicate with a horse that I see and sometimes as you were talking earlier, Josh, about this different levels of balance. So you can communicate with the horse, but then you communicate with the essence and the all knowing part of them and sometimes there's a difference conversation because of where they are. Does that make sense? Shall we see if we've got any questions? We've got so many people that have commented which is absolutely amazing.

Josh: 1:02:16

I see one here that says do we ask the horses to listen to us or do we need to listen to them? Do you want to, do you want to answer that first Suzy?

Susan: 1:02:25

Oh, say that one again. Cause I just got distracted. See what happens when you get distracted? I was reading the bottom one is connection through the higher realm and in the sixth sense. Could I answer that one first, cause that was where my mind just kind of went way. So if you want to think of it as sixth sense, I think of it in terms of the brain and where we're at as far as our brainwaves and what brainwaves we're producing is that when we get down to low alpha theta brainwaves, we are now have access to that other. In a bigger way so that by doing this quiet work, by being able to get there, we can now access what I call the internet of intuition and that's the higher realm. And that is where we communicate in this other way to the max degree, because now we're connected to the entire field of energy in that space. And that's, what's a beauty thing about our brain is when we know that we can do that, that we can go from different brainwaves and each one of those has a specific purpose to it. And that we know what that feels like and what we experience when we're in a particular type of brainwave. And when we can get ourselves quiet and start to experience that lower brainwave, slower brainwaves, we can access things. We didn't know, we could, we have information that we didn't know we had, and it's, it's getting down into our subconscious, but also into that other realm of access to another place, another dimension realm, whatever word you wanna use for it. I work in that space and it's, again, it takes time and practice to be able to speak, be present, be doing things, but also have a theta brainwave going on or even a gamut. And that is where I work at my bed. In that space. And it's really in there. I'm now let my conscious mind go. And I'm, I'm working from total intuition and speaking from my knowledge and accessing all parts of my brain here, for information knowledge, that's coming up. It's like, what do, what do I do now? How do I do with this? But yes, when you can get slower brainwaves, you can access this realm more easily. So it is what scientists or lay people call a sixth sense. Cause you're activating another sense. And it's not an unworldly sense. It's not a sense that is way out there that only a few people have. No, everybody has it. Everybody has that capacity because we all have that, that ability in our brain to do that. So if you think of it as a natural progression of your brain, it's just another state of consciousness that you can access. And if you think of it that way, it's no longer put in that woo. Which I hate that word. Woo. It's not in the wooo realm. It's in our capacity as a human being to be able to do that. And when we're ashamed for it, we don't go. But, you know, I, I don't care if anybody shames me anymore. I'm, I'm there a whole lot of the time and it's a beautiful place to kind of exist. But if I need to do mathematics, I can't do it there. I have to go back to beta brainwaves so I can do some calculations and think. So just, just hopefully that answered that question about, is it a different realm? Is it a success? So, okay.

Josh: 1:05:57

If I can add to that too, you're saying it as waves. I see it as doors. I feel like our brain and our brain loves boxes. And most of us through life have only learned how to communicate and exist with certain boxes. So we generally would go through certain doors and our brains love patterns. So it's like, okay, well, when this happens, this is the door I walked through. And then we believe that that's life. Well, what I hope that we're doing in this conversation is we're helping you recognize that there's more doors to choose. You can choose different patterns. Now there's different ways to open up doors, which is what makes it seem like a higher sense because we have to do this thing of calming. And I saw a question about, do we have to do active meditation? Kimberly asked that we have to do higher active meditation, and I don't believe you do. It's more so about just getting yourself into a space where you can do whatever you have to do to calm your mind. And as you do. You start opening that door. Now, the art of it is, is then are you able to deal with the thoughts that come and do the thoughts that come trigger old boxes and take you into another door again? Or do you gain the ability to start learning the skill of centering your own mind and walking through that door? So I believe it to be a skill and it is merely another door in our mind. And as we become more mindful of that, we start to be able to walk through it and then reap the beautiful reward and benefit of walking through that door. No different than the logical mind is a door. And when you walk through that beautiful door, you gain the mathematical ability to process and calculate, and it's just a door. And our brain has the beautiful opportunity to walk through many doors. It just has to be changed from one door is excellent and the other door is bad or negative or Ruby or whatever. They are merely doors that our brain can activate. Anyways, I just wanted to add to that. So it kind of brings it back to a more simple place, right? It's right. It's not some higher level thing that only monks in caves kind of tend to,

Susan: 1:07:53

and, and just do my book just a quick one. I have productive contemplation, which is a way you get there very easily. Beautiful. You know, it's like you do it waking with your eyes open. I never, I, I went through the meditative place, but I've really, you know, when I talked about making things simpler, here's the simple way to get to that place, you know? Less time of decades of practicing to become a monk, which you don't have to do because it's, once you find it, it's easy. And you know, I've noticed this with people. It's like, oh, I found that space. You know, even if it was for a second, it's like, cool. Now you know that you've got that door. You can go into that door again cause you know where it's at now and how to get there so, cool.

Ronnie: 1:08:39

Any more questions.

Josh: 1:08:41

So there's one here that says, do we ask the horse to listen to us or do we need to listen to them? I generally think that horses are beings that are constantly listening to frequency. It's natural for them to just feel their environment. So I don't necessarily think that we have to ask them to listen to us. I think that there is a desire for connection and energies kind of moving through the web all the time. Do we need to listen to them? I believe that if we're talking about walking through that door, be gaining to become mindful of the energy around us is a part of that where you become a little bit more because what happens for most people I feel like is that we're so. Our mindfulness is wrapped around the boxes we've created with our emotional or the things that have come up in our lives that have drawn us into self-preserving states. We're extremely mindful of those things, which causes us to hardly ever be within our own space, unless we sent something we need to protect ourselves from. So we're extremely sensitive to that kind of mind. That's obviously extreme, but that would just G just to make the point. So in the beginning, as we begin to gain this ability to be, to find ourselves more still and feel the space around us, I believe it's a good exercise to not necessarily ask the horse to listen to us. But for us just to put ourselves out in the space do we need to listen to them? Okay. So then that talks to that point of like, what happens when you get into the space, you will start hearing each other, you'll start feeling the space more and the richness of what the feedback is, starts to grow again. That's another by-product of walking through the door. So that's just kind of a quick, I'm trying not to get too deep on each question, but Sue, do you have anything you want to add to that one?

Susan: 1:10:19

No I don't think of it as asking the horse anything, actually, I just get in that space and then I think I'm going over here and I'm going to go do this and they go, and it's like, there is no I'm making them do it or any. It's just like, Hey, since we're, we've got the connection here, now I'm going to go do this and they go, okay, I'll go do that. You know, it's like, they're all of these ideas that we have. Things are hard with the horse. So we have to do these things to make them do it. It's like, it can just be so fluid and easy once you've gone through it, like just said that door, the struggles diminish, like, because do you ask your spouse every time? Like you go somewhere, you, if you've we're walking now, we're walking here. No you're connected. And you both kind of, or if you're dancing, you don't, you know, there's this flow to it that doesn't require you to say now, are we going to turn? No, I just have made an idea. I'm going to turn and now we're going to turn and it's all easy. I that's, all I can say is the more we try to complicate it with who should I ask? Or should I tell, or should I, what if I'm asking in the wrong way so that people get all these questions. I talk about question marks in our brain. The horse sees every question mark in your brain and does a goes. I don't know. I don't want to follow you because you got, I see all those question marks. You don't know what you're doing. I just make my brain, like, I'm going over here in a very soft way. I'm going over here. And then I'm going to go over here. And there's no question that I'm going to go over there. Whether you want to come with me, it's your choice. But usually if my energy is right, they just follow up. You know, and sometimes I think before, if I think it's a little tough, like I'm the most interesting person in the world. And then I walk off and the horse just goes, well, I want to be with the most. And it's just a funny way to like, lighten your energy a little bit. When you think that it's like, why wouldn't somebody come? If I'm really eat the most wonderful person, you know, they just go along and, and again, it's kind of like your door. It's like, there's a thing that I'm doing energetically, but that just simplifies the process of why would you not want to follow me? Do you ask your girlfriends? Hey, you want to come with me? Yeah. We want to go, what are you doing? Oh, well, we're going to go paint the house over there first. And then we'll go to dinner and they're like, okay, we'll go do that. We'll go paint the house. And then we'll go to dinner and celebrate. I think of my relationship with the horse in the same way there. My, you know, I may ask you to do something. That's not all that fun, but we're going to have fun while we're doing it. You know, I'm going to make this the most pleasant experience you can imagine, you know, and, and through my energy field politically, I mean, this is so again, so hard to explain it a theoretical setting, but

Josh: 1:13:22

I just want to add to that because it kind of connects to another point of question. That's a little bit lower, but I tried to listen to them, but I feel they need my guidance is this right? So then what I find a lot of times in, in dealing with we're working with people is that they can have a great intention, but because of life we've gotten to a place where that intention never leaves our body. So it's like, I feel like, I feel like there's no name to that question, but that question is speaking to this sense of energetic desire to be heard and present that life outside of your body. So it's not necessarily the horse, you know, that you're able to get the horse to hear you necessarily, but that, but that when you are most authentically connected to yourself, you are also the life leaves your body. So there is a process in the work that allows you to become authentic in your energy and your space. So then I wouldn't necessarily think of it like that. Your horse needs your guidance or that, but they may not be hearing you if the thought that you have stays inside you, and then you walk kind of like this, you know, the, the, the energy may not necessarily be leaving your body. So, so I would and this can be done in many ways. I say people are generally authentic in the very state. So when you're very happy, very mad, very sad, your insides and outsides become the same. And this is a really great way to kind of dive into if we could use more of the very states to just think about authenticity, that, that when you're feeling an energy, that you might allow it to just move outside your body so that you're, you're allowing, you're just letting what is within you show up. Now, the challenge for this for most people is that this touches on the edges of vulnerability that we generally do not desire vulnerability because we have guardedness. So I think there's something there. So regarding how people will sometimes, you know, have a beautiful feeling, but they spent so much time protecting that. Then now they don't get felt. They're not felt because there's a bridge there to kind of process through. Do you have anything you want to add to that?

Susan: 1:15:35

Yeah, I think it's true. I mean, like I said, there's so many different factors that we're dealing with individuals as they come in and, and they're, they're have their own struggles and their own struggle with vulnerability, which is a huge one. Right. And same thing with a horse. It can have the same kind of blocks too. I don't want to hear you because that would mean I'm vulnerable to whatever humans do to me when I'm that way. But yeah, it's, it's interesting. Cause I'll do an exercise where I will have somebody just go off, let the horses at Liberty and just go off. And can you walk in your authenticity? Holding a certain energy and just walk past the horse in that, as you know, when, when they can walk around without looking at the horse, without even thinking about the horse being there, can you walk around this little paddock area and just hold that energy and know me to attach to it and also have him check in and he needs attached to it and he need, are you feeling the need for your horse to follow you now? And they'll have to check in several times and it really helps them start to go, oh, I think I, I I'm holding it longer. I can, I can feel like I can hold an energy walk and go forward with it. And it's like, that's all you need to do is be able to, to do that same kind of thing. Find that energy walk forward in it, not care where the horse is. And oftentimes I've had people do that where they walk around for a while. And then all of a sudden I can watch because I watched the horse and it's off grazing, you know, off the side. And then all of a sudden they'll walk by and they'll give them a side-eye like, huh. And then I'll just say, keep walking. And then pretty soon the horse is following them. And one lady one time did that and, and she didn't know, cause she's just on her own path then. And all of a sudden the horse is right there at her side. And she goes, oh, she got scared. She didn't even know he was right next to her. It's like, do you see how you captured that horse? Just being yourself, just holding your energy. You got his attention. Because you weren't focused on what is he going to do? What should I do if he doesn't do it? What, you know, all those, again, those question marks that come up in our brains when we're uncertain or we don't know, but you know, it just proves it. It's all about the energy you hold. Like you're saying you hold that energy. That horse is going to notice it unless they've got so much trauma that they can't. But for the most part, I've seen that work of a lot of times.

Josh: 1:18:08

You know, I love that because really what we're saying, it's like, can you just walk around the pen and be authentic to active ways that are amazing. I did this in a course, one time, years ago, and we did, it was a personal development course or at the end, what they did is they had everybody stand in a big circle and you would have to go into the middle of the circle and dance and, and just depths. And it was like, holy smokes. That was so hard for me because I was so worried about whatever. It would have to think about my very unable body to dance, you know? And but it's like, okay, how richly can I just embody my own? Like, it's not about anybody else. So this whole ability of like, being able to do a thing, whether it's just in your saying walk it's like, can you just be yourself in the presence of. Can you just liberate yourself and not worry, you know? And then the other one is, is how often would you say and consider, just ask yourself this question. How often would you say you're truly authentic in your words, in conversation when you're talking to someone or how often are you trying to play games? Just this idea of jockeying, to know what to say and what not to say versus just truly saying this is my field. And here's what I think it's amazing how often we will not do that, which then starts to cause us to divide internally and externally because we're practicing just self-preservation again, instead of here's me, here's me. Yeah.

Susan: 1:19:35

That's so true.

Ronnie: 1:19:36

You're doing amazing you guys. This is Gail Simmons, when I do animal communication, I leave what I call earth self and go into a gentle energy space where there is no sense of time or urgency, is this like the space that you were talking about? The pressence state is very interesting because there's times when I'm doing a horse in a, like, be there for a little bit doing something and then I'll go, that's odd. I haven't had a thought and then I'll go, oh well, and then I'll go back to, it's a really interesting space. And I think it's so when you're talking about, but I think everybody experiences it in a different way or would again, not be able to use words, but yeah, it's like the space when I'm working with the horses, I am so totally present with everything that's being communicated in the energy field that I lose a sense of a separate self, if that makes sense. And it's really cool. Sometimes it's like, huh, look at that lady talking, oh wait, that that's me. But I'm totally in my body at the same time. Like I'm totally present. So it's that other door, as Josh would say it it's a gamma brainwave. It's like you are engaging every part of your brain. And it's all communicating. There's this amazing communication that's going on. And it's like, oh, this is what it's like to be truly human. And to truly present in the space. This is so relaxing. It's so cool. So there, yes. That's where everything is enhanced. Like the communication is enhanced, so I think it might be the same place, but Josh can probably explain it better than my babbeling right now.

Josh: 1:21:14

Oh no, it's all good. It's great. I look at it as time to me. It's to me, the relativity of time in an energetic space is different than, or you call it. Gail I think was the last question. You were talking about earth self and the earth self would be more of like the senses that allow us to exist on this earth. And time seems very linear. Like it's like Cox by the second, where from an energetic place I feel like time is so relative it's law of relativity is speaks very specific to this moment because when you're in a certain state, that that the saturation of experience can be so rich and the information that can be granted in a single moment. Can be just so deep and rich, which would have needed so much time on an earth plane. So you know, there's times where you feel like you've just been granted a gift from heaven, you know? So then when you walk through certain doors it's like, it's an entirely different space. And I truly believe that's where most of the universal language I like to call it kind of that mind because it kind of encompasses the holistic form of what happens when we're in communion with ourselves and with other beings. So yeah, it's like it's a time is less relative when we walked through that door and it can slow down through our sewer. It's like, you're almost watching yourself and it can almost seem to speed up because I've had times when I'm in that space. And I didn't even recognize that an hour and a half went by. And then there's other moments when it was, I would say, man, that was so rich, I'm sure an hour and a half went by and it's two minutes later. Exactly. So it's totally irrelative so that, anyway, that's kind of where I would think with that.

Ronnie: 1:22:48

So when he was talking about time, when you in that space at that time seems to be on a, on a different scale or it doesn't exist, it's very, very slow or very, very fast. So when I've been with clients, they can see what I'm, what I'm doing. And I will say sometimes there's no words, it's just the silence. And I usually describe it like the peace and quiet before a storm, you know, when all the birds stop singing and the wind drops and it's really, really calm and it's lovely and quiet. The best bit I love to do is to get them to have a go and experience themselves. So they will go up to the horse and they will just put their hands and I'll just say, take a breath and just feel real yourself, listen to your heart and see what happens. And you can see them close your eyes and start to relax and as they're doing that, the horses drop and they relax and then the horse will breathe out and the person will breath out and you see their shoulders drop and you know that they're in that space and I leave never awhile and then I'll go. So what are you feeling? Okay, just calm, just, just really peaceful and I go, that is it. That is the pure spot that you're in, that you are communicating, but not on a verbal level on a different, different form, energetic. I mean, this is my words, this is how I describe it. And that is lovely and sometimes they will have tears. And the horse again, you will see the horse just breathe and drop the shoulders, just stopped even more. It's lovely to see that and they walk away and you can just see the change in them. So to get somebody to do that and to feel that themselves and to experience it is more meaningful because it's them and the beautiful horse that they want to, to have a better relationship with and I love those moments. So that's, from my perspective.

Susan: 1:24:46

I don't want to interrupt, but Michelle Peterson had a really good question. So are you walking through other doors, but not shutting or slamming off all the other doors? And that's a really good question. Cause I think of it is I've opened every single door wide open so that everything, all the information possible is coming in. So like, I'll be thinking, oh, okay. So do something what's going on with the nervous system. Oh, I could do this. You know, so it's this beautiful place where you're accessing everything. You're fully accessing your entirety of what you're, who you are plus that other realm. And it it's, it's so magical. And that's the only way I could explain it. Cause I feel like I'm so highly tuned in that space. And I think Josh had said it too. And, but there's time distortion that happens in that space. There's all these, like, it doesn't follow the rules that we are thought that we think the world has to work. Like. That's what I think is so beautiful about finding that. And also kind of one of the things I, I wanted to just state about like the breathing place it's like sometimes I'll help people find that, that space at the bottom of their breath when they exhale and they don't inhale right away. And they just linger in that space of nothing. That's where you start to find the sacred space. And what's really funny cause I named my book sacred spaces, but I didn't know this till afterwards that native indigenous indigenous cultures believe that the pause at the, in the breath is the sacred space. And I totally think that's the coolest thing ever went because it really, for me, like if I'm having a hard time or like get off center, I'll go to that pause. And then I'm immediately into that space again. And there's a time and I've worked with people getting to that exhale and you linger there and she goes, wow. It feels like I don't have to breathe anymore. I'm like, yeah, isn't that the weirdest sensation. Like I could just stay there and not have to breathe. Everything slows down. Even your thoughts will slow down. Everything slows down to be congruent with that space. So that's just the kind of off thing, but I'd love that last question about, do you close other doors? No. You open them all.

Josh: 1:27:20

And I'd like to add to that because I feel like people believe that your brain is the central element and the doors exist around the brain. And I, I feel like our brain is actually a door. So there's a central place where we exist, which is at your comp center. And there's like, we could probably spend another five hours dissecting that element. But the place, the place that you exist is this place where desiring to find our center as a calm and the doors are from there. So when we can get to that place where we become still, then, then I agree. I think the doors are all open. They never shot, but the more, the more you have more awareness, you have the more doors you actually realize you have access to. And then what happens is the quieter you can get. Then when you're in a moment, it becomes quite obvious and that you will be drawn to a door in a moment. And the relativity of time decides how much information. And then in the next moment, you'll be drawn to another element. And then sometimes it's two at one time. And sometimes it's, you know, but, but if you recognize that you're not actually coming from your mind and looking at all the doors, it makes it too, too linear, too rational, too binary. But if you're coming from a still place, and then in a moment, you would see all the doors open and, and become mindless about what door you go through, but you just get quiet. And this is, this is why it's such important practice in whatever way possible. And so you said you have a practice in your book. I'm excited to get that far in the book to read that, because that to me is just that's, that's when we can get more and more ways where we can find stillness then inside of the stillness, just, just listen, procure ears up and just listen. It's like, you know, when you hear you see a horse hears something, but they don't know what it is. It's like, you're just listening. And I think moments need more observation where you listen and then you'll be drawn in the space gives guidance. Yeah. And it was, I just wanted to add that because I totally totally agree with the doors open doors. Don't actually shut. You don't need to shut. That's when our brain is making it binary, right? When one door closes, another door was like binary zero or one. And I don't think it exists in that realm, in this conversation the same way.

Susan: 1:29:46

Yeah. And I think too, just to your point, Josh, it's why every exercise I do with people get out of your thinking mind, get out of the Anil, analyzing everything and trying to figure it out and, and get into this other space. But you know, there, there's a lot of barriers to that too, you know, for people. So, you know, everything, we, I think both of us kind of work on a place where, where are you at at this time? And how can I, can I help you open, open some doors or find where those are? And, you know, I love that metaphor because it's what we used in hypnosis. Like, okay, now you're here in which door do you want to pick? Which door do you want to open? And those are all have different messages for us and different information for us behind those different doors. But yeah, this is beautiful. Yeah.

Josh: 1:30:35

I think it's also where frustration comes. So if you think your mind is the central space, your mind in many ways is limited to its function, you know? And so then when you are in your mind all the time in your brain, the logical elements of your brain, this is where frustration comes. Because now if you're trying to, from your mind state, understand the universal scope, your mind will become greatly frustrated. And generally that's why people will downplay other things when they're in their mind, because the mind can't actually conceive it because it's not what the mind was feeling. No the mind, the mind has to process your existence on this earth, come up with certain thoughts to actually activate you, to eat food, to drink water, to live life, to build provision. And it does that really, really well. And it should be appraised in all the things that the mind can do right now. When we speak to other doors, this is where the mind is not awesome. It's it's like I think of it like a beautiful team. And I look at all of the doors, like a beautiful team that everybody is a prey upheld and empowered in what they can do amazingly. And the brain can do certain things. And when the brain is no longer at its a powerful place, it then releases it to another team member. And we're all just beautifully trying to support any one moment with no negativity to any of the other team members. So sometimes that's where frustration can come, because you're actually trying to force one piece of your being to make up for an area that it actually doesn't have skillset. Thank you. Oh, I'm digesting what you just said as I'm processing it, but my brain is trying to process it. I'm just looking to see if any more questions. Do you see any, any questions that you'd like to add? There's this one here that says, so this is why Kimberly asks. So this is why we need to think through our hearts. Is that correct? The answer first, maybe, but I feel like you're, you're close. You're, we're closer to thinking from that perspective to me, it's like, it's like a soulful place. Our soulfulness is the center and it just is like, to me, it's just this beaming space. It's like a pure beaming lights and the doors kind of move from that. And that that's like us really being able to see our own beauty, our own being our own unique elements, which is more soulful to me. So yes, now heart also has physical elements that are not just pumping blood, but there's other elements of heart in the actual physiology. So I generally want to back it even a step farther to say soul, soul soulfulness, like this is where the unique light of who you are is the word is, would be just like just being yeah.

Susan: 1:33:14

And I, I just want to kind of add on that. I, I think when I wrote the book several years ago, it was almost like at that time, this big expansion of this into the horse rail hadn't happened. It was still so constricted. You might say like, oh, we can't, we can't let those. Thoughts come in. And because we have methods and we have ways, and I was like, how do I, how do I infiltrate this a little bit with some different ideas, but stay within a scope where it could be accepted by people who were very scientific or people who were a little further into, you know, the other side of it. And, and so it's like, I, I explained things in a very scientific way. Cause I thought that this needed to come out. No, for those people who didn't feel comfortable with like, what are you guys doing? How does this work? What? And it's like, here's how it works. If you need that. If you need to know that, here's how it works. I don't care how it works. I know it works. That is way back there. And another door that's wide open all the time, but that I don't need to like go back and go in that door and like have to explain to everybody why it works because now it doesn't matter because I'm in a different place, but it's, it's interesting how people will say, but it, your book isn't scientific enough. It's not this or it's too scientific or, you know, it's like, we're never going to please those people who need to be in one place. Or the other camp and for me, I, and I said this to somebody recently, it's like, I, my right and left brain, my scientific with my spiritual and intuitive side have fused together to a point where I cannot separate them anymore. They work in conjunction with each other all the time and I can't separate them. And I think it feels like kind of where Josh is. It's like, you've done all the science. You've known all that, but there's, there's this fusion of everything together that why do we need to separate them and make one bad or the other bad? Why can't they all be good? And why can't they both work in conjunction with each other? And that's kind of where I feel like I work. And, you know, if it bothers people that I'm not scientific enough, sometimes it's like, well, you know, I went down that road. It's back there. I can rely on that for one of those doors to open up when I need it, but I'm going to work in a different space.

Josh: 1:35:54

And I hear you saying that there's just no more

Susan: 1:35:56

doors. There's no bar. There aren't any, they're all, like you said, they're all wide open and everything. Yeah. Why is it? The human brain has to compartmentalize everything it's like, that goes over here. And this goes over there. And those two are far parts, so they can't talk. And this happens. Believe it or not. I mean, why I got out of the academia is because they have that same. They have lots of doors and they shut doors and you only have one little room to work in. And from within that door, within that room, you're working in, you have to stay within the rules of that room and you go, but I, I think we could get some information over there from that other department and they go, oh no, you can't. Don't you go over there? Shut that door. Don't don't no, and I think there's this freedom now that I can go anywhere. I want to, I don't have to stay in a room and that's for me the expansion of experience, because now I'm free to experience anything. And I don't have to worry about explaining anything because I get to just experience it and the people that I'm with get to experience it and they can go home and say, yeah, I had an experience.

Josh: 1:37:17

I think too it's because when people exist inside of the door, that is the model. It is more binary, so there is kind of right and wrong. And two plus two is four and it's not six. So it's kind of like, I think that's where people can get confined to needing that stuff. That's like, okay, you're not, it's not scientific enough cause it's not answering all of the things I need to understand to understand it's not zero, but it's one. So I think that that is generally a demonstration of when people, there is something for us to answer in regards to that, but it is not the primary existence. That is a door that can be conversed about, but there has to first off be a conversation that we are not living only inside of this room. Right. There was just another question that I really was, I'm really drawn to it's. And I don't know, cause I don't know if it's a question, but it really pulled me. I'm trying to give my horses the best life possible. I want to enjoy them energy and have them join together in what I need from them in terms of their competition life. This is intriguing to me because this is something that, you know, we are doing in some form in some of the things that I do for myself and that my daughters are doing. And it's somewhat competitive. And the thing I think first off is that it's a, it's a recognition that, that you can, you can do anything because this is a way it's not, it's not rules. The challenge is can you relinquish yourself from the rules that have been created and exist in a way, and then partake in that. And I believe this to be the way we're going to transform the competitive environment, that it's not just existence based on these confined rules. That here's how you do it. You want to build a cow horse, then you have to start from this way. You got to start at the state, you got to like, here's all your rules. And the brain loves that because it's like, this is right and this is wrong. And oh, now I can settle that. I don't need to deal with that anymore. Cause that's it versus saying that you can do you, there is no limits. There is no limitation. The key is to be in relationship and conversation with your horses and to develop a connection with your horses that allow that have their buy-in. And, okay, so just as a little example with my daughter she is getting she's competing in barrel racing and she's getting more and more competitive. And we've had a lot of unique conversations around. Is this when there's been struggles have come up, is this physiology? Is this a struggle he's having physically is it fatigue? Is it a connection? And almost every time that there has been a struggle, it has been about reassessing her commitment and connection to him versus going around three cans, which he generally doesn't care about. But when they have reassessed that and realigned, it is always transformed the act the next moment. So. So then what she scores or what she clocks, that's a thing, but it is not the heart. It's a part of it. And it's about being able to retain your connection to what is most important to you because that's, what's most important to the horses. They don't really care. They don't understand the competitive life. Do they enjoy competing? I truly believe they do, but they need to feel like what, what their needs in it are taken care of before that, or they'll feel victimized. So anyways, just as a sense, I truly believe there's a synergy there that it can be. And the goal is it's just, is it as easy? No. Is there more to consider? Sure. But you have to, but I believe the world needs that too, to have reformed minds in that space. Yeah,

Susan: 1:40:49

absolutely and can I just add, I know we're running almost two hours a day, the time warfare in my book, I talk about my experience with tank and we at the world show and, and the fact that I went to that show thinking I would never have that horse again, that he was going to be part of the settlement of my divorce and that I went there with the idea that this would be our last ride together and we would make it the best ever. And I wrote him in the sacred space. And it was, it was kind of that place where you is, it was surreal and you know, all those things and. People would come and watch, which I don't normally watch dressage cause it's kind of boring at the lower levels. Like the, you know, but people were coming in the stands and sitting there every time we came in and I'm like, what is that about? What they were experiencing was the sacred space. And my horse performed better than he has ever performed. I didn't try. I didn't care what we did. I just wanted the last ride, the most special. And we won to the next like person, 10 percentage points higher than the next person. And innercise, that's a huge margin, especially when you're talking about the top horses in the country that were competing open at that time. And if somebody said to me, you know what, you fooled the judge and I'm like an Olympic judge. I don't think I fooled them. But I think that they felt that connection communion was what it was at that time. And it was infectious and it, it like expanded beyond me and tank to the stands to everybody that was there. And they get to feel that peace, which is so different than, you know, what a usual show is like is everybody's tans that everybody's competitive and everybody's having freak out and, and none of the horses are having a good time. And it's like, here's two people, well, a horse and a person. See, I said, two people, a horse and a person having a sacred. And that's, that is what drove me to do this work. I'm going to tell you, after that, I'm like, I have to know why that happened, how it happened, how I can teach other people to have that happen for them, because once they experienced that, there's nothing else that compares to that I can tell you. And it's not like we're at a high level. You know, he was a young horse. It's not a high level, but on that day it was magic. I don't, you know, and not to brag or anything, but this was the turning point. It had to happen in my life because it turned me around to what is my purpose. And it's not for me to go back to the show and do that a bunch of times. It's for me to go, Hey, wherever you're at, you could experience this. If some little girl from the back roads of Colorado in the country who doesn't have a regular trainer can do it, you can do it. That's my, that's my, that's my drive. That's why I take a bunch of, you know, what, from people sometimes about what I'm doing, because no, I know what my purpose is and you can't sway me from it. And it's bigger than me.

Josh: 1:44:21

Awesome.

Susan: 1:44:23

Tell the story of tank and in your book and I didn't even put my name, that was me in the book. I couldn't even do that. It's like, it doesn't matter that it's me. All it matters is it it's the story. So that was beautiful, Susie. That was absolutely beautiful.

Ronnie: 1:44:41

So guys that we have been on for nearly two hours is there anything that you'd like to say to to the to the listeners just to give them some more encouragement to go out and have a practice cause you're both saying the same things, but in different ways and it's never just about the horses, it can't be because that's only a portion of it. It's about how it changes you, how it changes your life. But with the people, you know, the people that come into your life, you start to change things and see things within yourself and new people come along. This new connections as new light bulb moments and sometimes it feels like. You've heard this before, but this time you've heard it differently.

Josh: 1:45:24

For me it would just be that right where you're at is the perfect place to start. You know I kind of touched on this earlier, but this is a way of being, and a way of being is about integrating a thinking style into every moment. So then, you know, it's, it's, those things are happening for you just begin transforming your thinking about the way you're moving through life. And again, that can be smaller. It can be big, but it's a way, and there's always success that can be developed in that progression. So I just want to encourage everyone to just, just recognize that, that as you just transform your thinking and you shift your process it might seem like it's only making little steps, but again, size is not a thing and neither is time. And as you begin to transform that process, you begin moving in a new way. And that's how this that's how this changes. It does. That's the way it was for me. It's it was it wasn't it wasn't just one big moment. There have been big moments, but it was just this ever present attention. To certain details that caused me to transform my thinking style and allowed me to experience life in a different frequency and that everybody can do that right where you are.

Susan: 1:46:42

That's lovely yeah and just kind of finishing up just to add, yes I totally believe everybody can do it and I just encouraged by people, you know I get almost emotional. It's just joy place because it's so wonderful as I watched the comments go by and for everyone to listen to Josh and I, that have a different perspective on what's been out in the horse world for a long time and to have people come here and embrace it and want to learn. It encourages me to keep going because there has not been easy times in my life trying to do this, it's been a lot of rejection and humiliation and all those kinds of things. And I kept going, no, but this is my purpose. And so I just want to encourage everybody, your purpose, if you know what it is, I didn't know what mine was till 50 some years old. And I kept wondering, what's my purpose, what's my purpose. Well, the timing wasn't right. My purpose wasn't yet to come into knowing, because things had to align outside of before my purpose could be expressed or realized. And now that I'm on that, it's about doing this work and to help whoever I can, that comes my way because I don't go out and actively advertise anything. If people find me it's completely by divine intervention, I think I don't, I don't know how they find me. And I have to keep pure to like, this is how I work and this is the space and I don't want it ever to be corrupted to become something it's not. And I will stand in that space just as I do with my horses. I stand in that space with my horse and protect who I am. I'm going to protect what this work is, and it is sacred work and it is about really expanding humanity. Josh is doing, it has been out there for longer than I have, I think, doing this work, but we're both on that journey of, this is what our purpose is and I'm devoted to that first foremost in my life. So I thank everybody who came here and listened and it's a dream come true that people hear these words cause they're to help you not to help.

Ronnie: 1:49:05

Thank you, Susie that was lovely and I just want to say that from my own perspective, okay, so this is what I do. I do animal communication. I absolutely love it and when I'm in that zone, it's as clear as day when I step out that zone it's like mud sometimes, and I sometimes walk away thinking, did that really happen? Or did they really say that? Did that come through? And we're forever learning. We're growing, we're evolving and what feels right today might not necessarily feel right tomorrow because we're changing. So just be kind with yourself and don't get cross if you don't get it right, because it's about learning. And I'm talking to myself as I'm saying this. Okay. I love my horse, but my journey with Toots and funny enough as I've grown personally, it feels harder in some ways now that's probably because I'm making it harder, but that's my lesson, that's what I got to figure out. Which I do, but it is a journey, it's not always easy. So I wanted to say that to you, but when you're dealing with other people, you don't have the emotional baggage. So sometimes it's easier and your mind and your energy gets into autopilot. So as soon as you're doing that, so I use switched on straight away and it flows as it should do. When you come out of it, like I'm Ronnie the communicator. I'm Ronnie the person that's when you're looking and reflecting back on your day and how you perceive yourself to be, hope that makes sense, that I'm not waffling on. I hope that you've enjoyed this session together and I've allowed you the time that you needed to talk about what you need. I hope everybody enjoyed this. I've loved it. Thank you so much you too, it's been amazing. I've loved, listened to you. I could listen to you all day, do you want to say anything before you go?

Josh: 1:51:00

Just thank you for having me, it's just so awesome to create this type of space and to be a part of this conversation has been illuminating and yeah exciting to share.

Susan: 1:51:12

Same sediments for me not to talk to you and Ronnie thank you for doing this and really just excellent job of being the host. Our facilitator, whatever you wish to call yourself.

Ronnie: 1:51:25

I don't mind long as it's polite. Okay. which it was was. So I hope everybody has gained something from this interview, this joint interview, and hopefully go away and just sit with it and have a practice or contact Susie and Josh, all the details of their websites are on this stream as well for you bill to contact them personally. Thank you so much guys. Bye-bye Amazing. I always get nervous before I come on live and Josh came on and he was so cool, he was just so cool and me and Susie had a few technical issues and the whole way through that, I can feel my heart beating because I'm really paying attention. So I hope that everybody enjoyed that and who knows we may do this again depending on Susie and Josh in the future. Take care and bye for now.