Interview with Crissi McDonald and Mark Rashid

Interview with Crissi McDonald and Mark Rashid.
I'm so excited! I asked Crissi a while ago if she would like to join me for a chat. 
She's been so busy with clinics and travel so it wasn't easy to fix a date but I'm happy to confirm we've finally recorded our session.
As an added bonus, Mark kindly agreed to join us both as a guest too . . . how lovely is that!

Two wonderful very successful individuals in their own right.

I was so looking forward to chatting with Crissi and Mark and I wasn't disappointed.
Crissi and Mark brought both knowledge and laughter to our conversation and they were happy to answer a few questions from the viewers who joined the live too.

Two very special guests who are not only down to earth but also have a wealth of knowledge individually, as well as combined.
So sit back, relax and I hope you enjoy this episode.

Crissie McDonald.
Growing up she was most motivated when the work she did would earn her time with horses: lessons, mucking stalls in trade for a ride on a friend’s horse, babysitting to earn enough money for lessons, seeking out and finding horses where ever she could. Little did she know that all this time spent doing work would also be teaching her as well.  She was certified as an instructor through the CHA when she was twenty and got her first horse at twenty-four years old. Three more followed within two years.

She's had the pleasure to participate in western riding, working cattle, leading trail rides, managing large herds, showing in Hunt Seat Equitation and Dressage, taking jumping lessons, and has spent over thirty years working with many different breeds of horses and people from all over the world, as well as having the opportunity to learn from some of the horse industry's top leaders in our current understanding of humane horse practices.

Crissi enjoys teaching at clinics with her husband Mark Rashid. She's a certified Masterson Method® equine bodyworker since 2017 and is also an instructor for the Masterson two-day Beyond Horse Massage workshops. Crissi is the author of three books, two about the human/equine bond. Her other book, North to Home, is a fiction novel.

Mark Rashid.
Mark Rashid is an internationally known author and horseman known for his ability to understand the horse’s point of view and solve difficult problems with communication rather than force. He began working with horses at age ten, when he met the “old man,” who taught him to work with horses, not against them, and to listen to what the horse is trying to say. Mark’s clinics are structured as one-on-one work with horses and riders and are immensely popular with people around the world.

When Mark decided to study the martial art of aikido as a way to improve his horsemanship, he brought the same quiet determination to it that he exhibits in his work with horses. After years of practice, he has earned a third degree black belt in Yoshinkan aikido and now teaches the “way of harmony” in the local dojo as well as in his Aikido for Horseman workshops, which are known also by the name of “Aibado.”
https://crissimcdonald.com
https://www.markrashid.com
https://www.facebook.com/consideringthehors

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Contact Ronnie.
mailto:equinevoicesronnie@gmail.com

Transcript

Welcome to Equine Voices my name is Ronnie and I'm really, really excited because I've got two guests, we have Chrissi McDonald and Mark Rashid.

I asked Chrissy a while ago if she'd like to come on for a chat, which she said yes, which was really, really kind for her.

Obviously they're very, very busy, so we just had to wait for a date. So I was so excited when she said would I like to have Mark as a guest as well?

So I'm excited to bring them both on. I'm going to let them talk about themselves because they know themselves better than I do, so I'm not gonna go into a full introduction, so they like explain who they are and what they do. We'll talk about their books and also a summit that they've recently been to and come back from Texas, so without further ado I shall bring Chrissy and Mark in. Welcome.

Crissi 00:52
Hello. It's wonderful to see you.

Ronnie 00:55
Oh, I'm so, so pleased that you're here. We'll have ladies first. Would you like to go first?

Crissi 01:00
Sure I've been around horses since I was a kid. I was born loving horses. I was two years old when I first met a horse. It was actually a little Shetland pony and I grew up in the city. We didn't have horses. We didn't have money for horses, but I ingratiated myself with people who did have horses. And I cleaned stalls and I cleaned out trailers and I groomed and I cleaned tack and I babysat. I basically did anything I could for either time with their horses or lessons and I did that pretty much through. Most of my junior high and high school years.

I had a friend who had Arabian and she was kind enough to allow me to hang out with her a lot. And I have a very soft spot for Arabian. I think they're great horses. Her horses were do anything horses. So she, you know, she could go on a jumping class, she could go in a barrel class, she could go in a hunter, equitation, or western pleasure, all with the same horse.

So I grew up with Arabian being able to do anything and go anywhere. And when I got older and, and I had a Arab myself as a clinic horse, people would ask me if she was a full blooded Arabian, which she was and I said, yes, she is. Why? And they said, because she's too quiet. Arabs are crazy. And, you know that has not been my experience.

I've certainly seen Arabs made crazy, you know, made to be hot. But I think any breed, whether it's an Arabian or Quarter Horse, Tennessee Walker, they're a horse first and the breed is secondary. You know, had a lot of experience just doing Jim Connor and trail rides and lessons and, you know, going shows, showed and dressage a little bit.

I took jumping lessons just doing a little bit of everything. I was certified as an instructor in my early twenties by Camp Horsemanship Association, the Chha, and I taught at a Girl Scout camp for a couple summers and then ended up getting my own horses, started teaching, then started training, and that was over 30 years ago.

So 30 years and lots of miles. Yeah, so I, I pretty much, if it's to do with horses, I pretty much enjoy doing anything. I don't really have a preference, you know, I can only ride Western, or only ride English or only ride gated horses, you know, if it's a horse I'm in.

Mark and I ended up meeting in 2001, and that's when I learned about this work and up until that point I had been pursuing a couple of different other things, but I found horses I couldn't help and when I started riding with Mark I learned that I was relying more on technique than I was on the internal parts of both the horse and myself, which I was clueless about because up until that time it was you know, spurs and tie downs and make 'em do it. And you know, if I say do this thing, the horse is supposed to go do that thing and so it was all about as a trainer, how good were you applying the techniques? And it didn't matter how the horse felt about it.

And that really left a loving horses the way I do it was the only thing I knew how to do, but I didn't like it. It didn't feel right. And when I went and saw the work that Mark was doing, that felt right. So that's what I've been practicing since 2001. These principles of softness and then we can let Mark talk Cause I've been jabbering,

Ronnie 04:33
I was gonna ask you a question but I thought actually I better ask Mark to say hello first.

Crissi 04:37
Yes.
Mark 04:38

It's alright you can ask her a question. I'm good. I'm actually really good at waiting.

Ronnie 04:41
Was it like a clinic? How did you hear about Mark? When you first went to see how he worked.

Crissi 04:46
So I was living in Arizona at the time and I went to a friend of mine who was riding in a clinic every month and she rode with everybody. And I went to her and I said I'm running into these horses.

I can't help them. I have no idea what to do. But I don't wanna learn from someone who's a jerk you know I don't wanna go to a clinic and have them talk about being gentle and kind in the round pen, and then they walk outta the round pen and they're jerks to the people. I said, I want someone who's the same inside round pen as they are outside.

And she said well there's a guy named Mark Rashid coming here in a couple months. Do you wanna ride with him in the clinic? And I said, yeah, sure. And she said, oh, and here's a book. And it was considering the horse. I thought, oh, that's nice. He wrote a book.

So I had no idea who he was. I read his book. I really like the book and then after four days of that clinic, I was, I was in. And that's all I've been doing. So

Ronnie 05:47
Thank you chriss. Your turn now

Crissi 05:50
 Yes.

Mark 05:50
Well I am Chrissy's husband and because she's short, I end up You know, getting the things off the tall shelves for her mostly mm-hmm. , you're really good at that.

I'm good at that. And I'm good at lifting heavy things for her. Mm-hmm. . I clean up after her horses, which is nice. I clean up after the horses too. She cleans up after the horses too but mostly I do. And yeah, I think that's about it.

Ronnie 06:16
 I'm sure there's a bit more to it than that.

Mark 06:18
You know, it's funny, I, I, I struggle a little bit with talking about myself, so I would, I would just say that I've been kind of working with horses since I was about 10 years old actually I started cleaning up after 'em. I was good at it then too, when I was about 10. That was when I, I started my horse mucking after career was when I was 10. And I've just gotten better at it since then. So yeah the guy that I worked with when I was a kid, he, he was he was quite a horseman and he could do pretty much anything with a horse without raising a hand or raising his voice.

And so ever since then, that's that's been my goal working with horses. Everything that I do in life for me moves me towards that goal. I choose things in my life to move me closer to being able to be a really good really good with horses and just good. A good person. So so basically that's, that's it. I mean, I could go on but I prefer not to, yeah.

Ronnie 07:29
Yeah. No, that's fine. So This was the first book that I, I bought from you, mark and it was a lovely Sue Hill who's actually watching tonight.

But I remember reading this book, to be honest, I can't, I can't remember how I came across you. I think it was probably the usual thing. YouTube videos and anything to do with horses and because my horse is a quarter horse, you know western riding, when I got Toots there wasn't that many around me that knew about Western riding, not really. In fact, I really struggled to get an instructor or anybody to come and help me.

I think it was a YouTube videos. I think you might have been on Facebook as well and this was a book that Sue brought back and you kindly signed and that was an interesting story because Sue Hill was at a summer camp for horses. So they take horses there, obviously with the riders. And they have like a couple of days, a weekend where they get to go and do cross country and show jumping or just hacking out. And they camped there and I was working there.

I was, I was kindly asked to go along and do some work there. And Sue was one of the ladies that I saw, and at the time I was doing like half hour sessions, like taster sessions. And I went to see Howie and I can remember we had the conversation and she was asking me, well, well who would you recommend to help me with Howie then?

And in my head there was two people that was you and Warwick Schiller and I remember thinking, well that's not gonna happen, so I didn't even mention your name. So I said, well, make sure you go to somebody that, Howie trust and he's okay with, you'll know if it's the right person by how he behaves with them.

So we went for a coffee and we were sat outside and we was all sort of chatting about the day. And Sue started talking about going to, I think it was to Gatwick or to Heath Heathrow. She said, I've got to go pick Mark up and my ears just pricked up. I was just having a coffee listening and I I was like, that, that wouldn't be Mark Rashid would it and of course the conversation was, yeah, I'm organized a clinic. I went. Oh my God.

Well he was one of the people that I would've recommended for you to have to help you with Howie, after reading your book. So that was so funny.

So she kindly offered me an exchange for going to chat with her, with the horses and this ticket to come and see you guys, which I am so, so grateful for. And it was amazing. And it was lovely to see you work, mark. And it was lovely to meet you Crissi because you were training, I think at the time, you was already starting to do your masters method. Mm-hmm. . And so we got to have a little chat and you would show me some breathing techniques. You probably won't remember that, but you would show me some breathing techniques, which I can't remember now. I'm sorry.

Crissi 10:17
It's ok. You're breathing anyway.

Ronnie 10:19
You just . But you were so lovely, the pair of you, It was just lovely to meet you both and you were, you were so humble and approachable which I like. Cuz there are some people you go around and like you say, you know, they're all nice and smiles, but then they go away and they're different people but that's, that's not you guys at all.

So getting back to the book, I actually loved this book, Mark because it wasn't to tell you what to do book. It was very much your experience. And as you read it, for me it was like, well of course that makes sense. Why wouldn't it? It's the way you told the story and it was from the, from the old gentleman that you was working with and I loved it because as I said, it's not a tell you what to do. You should be doing this and this is how long you should be doing it was your experience, but it was told in such a way that you would think about it and it would make you think. It would give you some information but still make you think for yourself. Does that make sense?

Mark 11:20
Yeah. And I think, you know, really that was the, the goal initially with that. You know, I don't, I'm not a, a big, I struggle reading how to books and I just don't read 'em, I guess is another way to say that. It's just not my kind of anyway, so, you know, when, when I was asked to write that book what I wanted the book to do, I wanted it to read like a James Herriot.

I dunno if you're familiar with James Harriet. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But I wanted the book to read like a James Harriet book and I wanted it to look like a Will James book. So will James was an author in a cowboy back in the 1920s here in the States.

And and he illustrated his own books. And so just so happened a friend of mine was was also a big fan of Will James and an artist. So the illustrations in the book are, he had his way of of drawing and painting. Were, were very, very similar to Will James. So it has, that will James, you know, the, the pictures inside look like sort of a Will James book, and I wanted it to read like a James Harriet book, you know, so just that conversational, you know, here's what happened to me and if the information is helpful, then that's great. And hopefully if it, if it's not helpful, at least it's a good story, you know? And so that was, that was actually my goal in writing the book and somebody asked me to write it. Otherwise, I probably wouldn't have ever done that. I was just working on a ranch and actually I was between ranch jobs when I wrote that book. But yeah, so that's how, that, that's how that all came to be so you know, it was kind of, part of the big scheme was to, was to just tell stories you know, cuz we learned from, we learned from stories and so that was my goal.

Ronnie 13:16
And it was easy to read. So you did achieve your goal, which is brilliant, and thank goodness for your friend saying that you should write a book because here you are.

Mark 13:25
It was a life changing suggestion as a matter of fact. Mm-hmm. . Yes. And that, that little book completely changed the trajectory of my life.

Ronnie1 3:34
So, yeah. So how many books have you got out now, mark?

Mark1 3:39
I'm not sure.

Crissi 13:40
15.

Mark 13:41
15.

Ronnie 13:41
And what is your latest book? Do you happen to have a copy with you?

Mark 13:44
Yeah for the love of the horse. Yeah.

Ronnie 13:46
So without giving too much away, just a little brief about what that one is particularly about?

Mark 13:51
Well, that, it's interesting because that is a, that's actually the only reason I wrote this book was because we're coming up on the 30th year anniversary of considering the horse and so this is for the love of the horses basically a a tribute, a 30th year tribute to considering the horse is without giving a lot of it away.

That's, that's basically what it is.

Ronnie 14:15
Okay. And since you first started, so I'm not, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna ask you all the questions, mark, don't worry, Crissi.

Crissi 14:22

I'm good.

Ronnie 14:23
Since you started doing what you do your amazing work with horses and obviously it's not, it's not just about horses cuz it's the people that you're helping because they need their assistance and guidance.

So since you started, is it more or less the same core that you are working with? It's the same essence of when you first started or has it changed dramatically to where you are today?

Mark 14:47
I would say what I do and how I do it has changed hopefully, you know, I mean, you would think after 50 years you would be doing some things different but the core has not changed. So the core of what, what I picked up from Walter back all those years ago, that has not changed. So finding a way to work from, from the inside of us to reach the inside of the horse that hasn't changed. So basically what has happened over the years is I've just tried to find ways to enhance or get better at that aspect of things.

So in order for that to happen you know, you have to get better as a person and so that's what I've been trying to do. You know I don't know that I've achieved that but that's what I work on. So you know, working on horsemanship is a 24 hour a day thing.

It's not just doing, this is not when you're working with your horse. So my goal has been just trying to become a better person. So that has not changed and in fact, if anything, that's probably gotten a little, maybe a bigger piece of the puzzle for me over the years.

Ronnie 16:08

We'll ask Crissi what she thinks about that last statement. Has he improved Crissi

Crissi 16:14
You don't wanna get me started bragging on my husband because I'll be here all day. Yeah, I would say that hopefully we both continue to improve and not only with our work with horses but as people as well.

You know, we're both pretty committed to paying attention and you know, looking at patterns, whether they're positive or negative and you know this is my second marriage and I have to say it's the best marriage I've ever been in. Yeah. So I'm incredibly biased but I am also incredibly happy. So, yeah.

Ronnie 16:46
And you have an amazing, well I'm saying you have an amazing life, but I'm not you, so I'm assuming you have an amazing life because you get to meet so many so many people that have found you and are so thankful for themselves and the horses, and you get to meet some people, the trainers that have followed you or just been introduced you and even people that maybe haven't crossed your path, but they're aware of you through the internet.

You know, like Facebook and YouTube it's an amazing platform that we get to, to meet. I mean, we are chatting today because of this, which I, I find fascinating and I think it's one of the, the pluses Yes for Facebook. Cuz you know, it gets a lot of stick but actually it has a lot of good as well.

And you can chat and you can meet people and obviously you guys can work, you can do zooms and you can do teaching. Cause I know you have a online teaching course, don't you as well.

Crissi 17:42

Mm-hmm. , we do, we have a classroom where we post videos and we just started doing a new thing for our classroom members called Mini Lessons and people send in a three to five minute video. We take a look at it, see what's going on between them and their horse, and we do a voiceover and then post the video. So that's super fun. We just started doing that.

Ronnie 18:06
Yeah. So is that in a private group is it?

Crissi 18:09
Requires a subscription and the link is on our homepage, so it's super easy to find.

Ronnie 18:13
Okay Crissi we'll get back to you now. Okay. Mark you can have Breather. So tell me how did you get into the Masterson, you know for the listeners, explain how you went into that direction.

Crissi 18:25
Let's see. Way, way back, I had a friend of mine who'd been to a two day masterson in course and she came over and she said can I do this stuff that I learned at this two day course? It's like massage, but it's not massage. And she came over and she worked on my horse and I washed her and I. Oh, that's pretty nice. You know, it's really gentle and it's really quiet. And and then a couple years go by and the same horse, I was rehabbing her and we were at the stage where we were beginning to ride again.

And I thought it would be really nice if I could take care of her instead of relying on trying to find a chiropractor or massage therapist on the road. And so we had Jim's first book in our trailer that Stephanie Reinholt gave to Mark years before and so I pulled the book out, it's called Beyond Horse Massage, and I opened to the first page and I thought, oh good, it has pictures.

So I took the book out to my horse. I looked at the book, I followed the directions. The very first thing I did was bladder Meridian. So I started doing the bladder meridian and she started yawning and licking and chewing. And it felt, now the feeling in me was like, This is so cool. I feel like we are having a conversation that is so clear and you know, with horses, sometimes even when we're doing our best and we're trying to listen and sometimes it's, it's hard to know if the message we sent is the message that's been received.

And with the masters in work, it's so simple. If you touch a spot, you find the blink, you wait there and then they release. It's like so clear. And so every day I would pick a new technique out of the book, I'd read it, and then I got to my horse and play around . And then probably a year after that, mark and I went to the Minnesota, was it Midwest Horse fair or Minnesota?

Minnesota Horse Fair. Yeah, the Minnesota Horse Fair. And I was going through the list of presenters and Jim Masterson was on there and I went, oh honey, Jim Masterson's here. We need to find his booth and go, go talk to him. And so we got there early one morning and we went and found Jim and he told us later, it was really funny, he's saying, yeah, I saw Mark on the schedule and I said, oh look, we have to go and introduce ourself to Mark

So we were both on the same wavelength, which was really, really cool. Anyway you know, we talked to Jim on and off throughout the whole expo. It was four days and we ended up arranging a two day clinic right before his five day clinic in Colorado. And Mark and I attended the two day clinic and then the five day clinic right after that.

So it was back to back. And after I was done with the five day, I decided to go on and become certified because, because I love this work and Jim is the only other person besides Mark who I've ever heard say, when in doubt go softer. You know, usually it's when in doubt. Crank it up, you know, crank up the pressure or crank whatever you're doing.

When if the horse doesn't hear you the first time, make the second time bigger. And the master method isn't like that. You know if you're encountering places where the horses are uncomfortable, you back off and you go slower and you go softer. So there's all these different qualities of touch durations of touch.

It's, I, I can't tell you the longer I do this work, the more I love it and it's really handy because when we're out on the road and we're doing clinics, if someone has a horse who we think has a physical issue that maybe is getting in the way of something they'd like to do with them I'm available to give their worst body work.

So it's a win-win.

Ronnie 22:12
Perfect. Yeah. So it goes very much with how you work as well, doesn't it? The softness and when you're watching a horse and you're looking, you're looking for that subtlety in communication. So if Mark was working with the horse, again I'm assuming I'm not saying this is what you do, mark.

You're looking for that softness and you're looking for the, the small tries and that has a similar ethos in the masterson work, which is lovely. So it goes hand in hand which is perfect for you guys. So where does Acado come into this?

Mark, you do aikido.

So how did you get into that?

Mark 22:50
Actually, I was doing a clinic in Tennessee years ago, and there was a guy there that was having trouble with his horse and was a little passafino if I remember right. And he was really struggling. The two of them were really having a hard time and, and and so I mentioned to him that, you know, that all of the energy that he wanted from this horse was there.

He was having trouble getting the horse to move. And he was struggling with some other things and I said, all the energy that you want is there, and if you were to just give it some direction, you know, just sort of blend with what you have going on and give it some direction and then see what happens, you know?

Right. So just blend it, blend with what you have going on, and then, and then give it some direction and stay focused on what it is you're looking for. And then see if, see what happens. And we don't get a lot of men in our clinics, mostly women. And so he was the only man in that clinic, and as I was talking, he looked like he was glazing over you know like I was losing him.

And so I just talked faster to try and keep him engaged. And I said, I know it sounds like Zen horseback riding, but it's not, you know this is all energy and blah, blah, blah. And finally after, I don't know, however many minutes it was, maybe three to five minutes of me talking and him not even responding.

Finally, I just said, do you understand what I'm saying? And he says, oh, yeah, I understand completely what you're saying. I said, really? Yeah. He says, well, let's give it a try and now you went and everything that he wanted was there. And he had no trouble after that. And he came to me after that and he asked me if I trained in Aikido.

And I said I hadn't. And he said, well, what you're doing is Aikido. And he was an Aikido instructor and it never, never crossed his mind that he could apply the principles of Aikido to horsemanship. And so he invited me to go to his house, which was in North Carolina. I had some time off after that clinic, and we sat in his house and, and watched Aikido videos of the Masters.

And as we were watching them I could pick out what they were doing. I could see, I could see the movements and what they were doing with the subtle things that they were doing to get the responses from their partners that they were looking for and he said, well, that's, that's interesting because a lot of times people who, especially people who don't train in Aikido, can't see that.

But I guess it was because, because of the work that I do with horses, you know I spent a lot of time really trying to, trying to focus on the little things. But anyway that was that. And I ended up studying first before I started training. And I did that for a few years, and then a couple years, and then I started training in Aikido.

There was a really good instructor here in town and and so I've been doing it ever since. And that's almost 30 years ago. Wow.

Ronnie 26:25
Yeah, I know Sue raves about it.

Crissi 26:29
Yeah, she's very good at it.

Mark 26:31
She's very good.

Ronnie 26:32
I know you guys have recently come back from a summit in Texas. Would you like to tell the listeners what that was and what happened during and then a little bit after if you want to, are you okay to do that?

Mark 26:45

Well I don't know what it was.

Crissi26:47
We're looking at each other and laughing because yeah we were talking to a couple of friends of ours in Scotland by Zoom yesterday, and they asked us the same question and, and we're like, it was a life changing experience and it was amazing. Mm-hmm and it was a room full of people, and I'm sure all the people who were watching the live stream may have experienced this too.

It was this great big room of people from all over the world, all over the country, all going in the same direction. How often does that happen?

Mark 27:24
There were 22 presenters and

Crissi 27:28
250 audience members.
Mark 27:31
And everybody was heading in the same direction. Mm-hmm. . Yeah, it was I've never experienced anything like it to be honest.

And you know it was, it was extremely supportive as far as all of the presenters go. Everybody, I apologize for rubbing my nose. I've got some allergies going on here. They're causing me a little bit of trouble but you know, everybody was very supportive of one another.

There were several people there, chrisy included that were pretty worried about getting up in front of a whole bunch of people plus a live stream and giving a talk, you know, never done it before, but everybody was very, very supportive of each other. Connections were made with people, you know, there were people there that we had never met.

I certainly had never met, but it was like we had known each other forever. We'd been friends all our lives and. That has continued. After the summit we're in close contact with several of the, of the presenters and

Crissi 28:35
one of them's on here right now her name's Jane, Jane. Hi Jane Pike. Yeah.

Ronnie 28:38
I'll put some comments shortly when, when we have a little bit of a break and Yeah.

Crissi 28:43
We're working with Jane which is really exciting. And we're also, you know, kind of tossing around ideas with several other people, and these are our colleagues, you know, and one of the things that I heard a lot from the presenters was, and also from the participants, audience members, is everyone felt like they were an island, you know, as though what they were doing was out of the ordinary and a little off center but they just kept doing it because that's what felt good, for them and their horse.

And then they come to this summit, and now there it's like, there's 250 people and then the presenter, so close to 300 people all speaking the same language as far as horses and inner growth and, and the feeling of being solitary, of not having any support system that just gone.

And it's a reality that what the horse world is undergoing a shift and a, that is better, that's creating better situations for horses and people. That's a reality. And, and that's something even before the summit that I noticed when we would go to expo, the very first expo we went to, the quality of questions was.

My horse doesn't do lead changes. How do I make 'em do lead changes my horse doesn't collect at the trot. How do I make 'em collect at the trot? My horse doesn't cross water. How do I make 'em cross water? Those are the questions we got maybe 15 years ago, about six or seven years ago, the all of a sudden the questions started being, I'd like to listen to my horse better.

How do I do that? I'd like to communicate, I'd like to have a better relationship. I'd like to have a partnership with my horse. How do I help my horse feel physically better? Cause I know he feels coming, but I don't know what to do. So all of a sudden the, the questions started changing and then we go to the summit and here's a great big sign in our faces that says the horse world is changing for the better.

Which is great news for all of usI think.

Ronnie 30:59
Absolutely. I mean I watched the summit and I watched the whole of it. Yeah I couldn't get there for, for personal reasons but mm-hmm. . And I was really disappointed but I managed to watch it and part of me was like you know, I'm not sure I want to watch it cuz it might be like rubbing salt into the wound cause I couldn't get there.

And it was like, don't be stupid, don't put your nose off despite your face just watch it. And it was as powerful watching it, I'm sure it was more so cause you guys were there but it was just as powerful watching it. And I, that's the feedback

Crissi 31:31
we've heard from a lot of people Yeah. Is they said, yeah, I watched the livestream and it was three days and I couldn't, I couldn't not watch it.

Ronnie 31:37
Yeah I think it was two o'clock starting in the uk. So I'd been up to do the horses and then I came back to watch, and then I just listened on my phone like a podcast while I was doing other things and driving. So I could hear it continually. And I think because you had a lot of horse people in one place doesn't always work out that well sometimes for lots of reasons. And everybody has their own view. Everybody has their own understanding and their own level, their own place. And to get along and to be able to share slightly different views and appreciate you the person, it is a, it's a big thing to do. It was very welcoming and I think the foundations were there already.

So as Mark would say when he is working with clients and horses the basics, the foundations were already set in motion and it's a lot bigger. This is my view, it's bigger than horses and just people, and it was set emotion and it's just like everything was in the right place at the right time, ready for the next phase, which is as you said, changing things because we can't go on doing the same things because we've always done it that way if we don't ask questions.

Yeah. But why do we do that? Just because it's traditional does it mean it's right Unless we ask the question, and it's about asking the question to ourself, because sometimes you do things with horses, but if you took a step back and looked at it as if that was a person and that was you, how would you feel?

And yes we are not a horse. But how would you feel, you know, if you were pulled out of a field tacked up, go not ask if you're okay, just do the normal stuff, get back, back in the field and off you go. How would you feel? So it's about understanding a little more about the partnership.

They're not a machine, they're a living being and they have feelings and emotions and opinions. as we know. And they're not always the opinion that we'd like to have or they don't always want to do the things that we want to do and sometimes it's compromising.

So I found it fascinating and it wasn't a surprise to me, I didn't feel it was a surprise because and I don't mean that in a, oh I knew, I just didn't feel it was a surprise because there's lots of changes going on, on lots of different levels and lots of different areas. And it's because people want that deep down, that's what we want.

Well, it's who we,

Mark 34:12
it's who we are as people. Yeah, yeah. As humans. We're, we're designed to get along and, you know, the world has kind of taken us away from that, or we've allowed ourselves to get taken away from it. But at our core, we are, we're designed to get along. We're part of nature and, you know, there's a harmony in everything, in nature and, and we are part of that.

The problem I think a lot of times is that what we, what we have been taught, or what society kind of dictates rubs against that and takes us in a different direction. But at our core, we are, we are constantly, if we listen to it, we are constantly striving to go back to that. And so it's not a, you know, it's not a mystery, I mean, to be honest, I didn't expect, I didn't expect that many people as far as being presenters, I didn't expect that.

I've never seen it before. I've never experienced it before where, you know, we've done a lot of horse expos and whatnot, but you might find one or two people that are kind of on the same page at those big expos, but you don't find everybody, I mean, everybody that was there. Were, was on the same page, and all of the presenters like I said, there were no contradictions from one presenter to the next.

And we had no contact with anybody else before that, but it was like, we were the spokes and we were all heading towards the hub of the wheel. And and so, you know, we were all working together and all the people that were there were part of that and, you know we talked with Warwick yesterday and he asked, asked us what we thought.

And you know, I said I didn't have any expectations going in other than I hoped that that my presentation might land. With somebody in the audience. Other than that, I didn't really have any expectations, and even that wasn't really an expectation as much as it was, you know I just hope that that might be the case.

And even though I didn't have any expectations, there is no way I could have, even in my wildest imagination, anticipated what was there and what has continued to be there. And we were out with Dr. Steve Peters and his wife for dinner one night, and I, I mentioned to her that, that it feels like what Woodstock must have felt like to those, I know I've known some people who have, were at Woodstock and they, they came away saying it was a life changing thing for them, that The energy and the, the synergy that was there.

It was a life changing thing and it stayed with them long after they left there. And I mentioned to her that this is what it must have felt like at Woodstock. That it's, it's like the Woodstock of the horse world kind of thing. I mean it's still, it's still with us, you know?

And it's pretty amazing. Amazing. I don't, I really don't have the words, you know, there's only so many words in the English language and I don't know that there is one to describe what we experienced.

Crissi 37:48
It was life changing. Yeah.

Ronnie 37:49
And there's lots of little streams and lots of little avenues and, and places to come from this.

I think when people a desire to want, and it's not always a word, it's not something you can always put into words. There's a desire, deep desire for change and you, you may think, I want to change this, I want to do that. But I think the core this is obviously just my view, there's something deep and it's not able to be put into words, but there's a feeling of wanting to see be the authentic you mm-hmm and see that in your external world. So see that in other people, see that in the world that surround you. So it's not as Chrisy said earlier before people that follow certain horse culture you know, they felt alone, but that made them feel actually we're not alone, they realized that before but it's the deepness of that.

And when you connect on a heart level and when you connect on that level, there's something magical happens. And it's not like magical fairy dust magical, it's, it's there for everybody, but it's just getting in that right time and then it's boom, lightning strikes.

Mark39:02
Yeah I think you hit the nail on the head where I think it touched the authentic self, that's the best way I think that I, that I could, I don't know that we are, we're trying to change as much as we're just trying to get back to who we are. Mm-hmm and I think that that helped move us in that direction.

Ronnie 39:25
Yeah. Yeah connection. I mean sometimes we like to think we're in Ireland and you know, I, I spend a lot of time on my own. But I'm not, I'm not lonely, I love my own company you know, but I'm quite happy to be with people too. It's quite nice, actually shut the door and you don't have to talk to somebody.

It's good job. I'm not doing that tonight cause this won't be working. But it's connecting and I think that's what I love about horses. I, I, I do very little riding, especially on my own but I just love being in their presence and it's, it's that calmness and it's that no speaking, just being especially in winter.

The UK is dark now and it's lovely to sit just listening to a munching on the hay and it's very therapeutic and it's just so nice and it's underestimated what that can do. The benefit of that for your mind and just grounding yourself yeah, yeah, I'm excited to see where this goes because it's bigger than the summit but I truly believe it's, it's, it was meant to happen and it's happened and yeah, definitely.

Right? I think what we'll do, that was getting quite deep, wasn't it? . We could have done the meditation, so we've got quite a few comments. Can you see this, by the way, on yours? Mm-hmm, there's quite a few people. Jane, are you still hear? Janie Pike. Yeah she made a comment.

So if anybody's got any questions for Chrissy or Mark or for both of them, please write a comment and we'll share that on screen and they can answer that. Sally Horsemanship journey. I'll put that one on.

I'll read that out for the benefit of the listeners that are not gonna see this. So, mark inspired me originally, his stories lit up, my horse journey. And thank you guys as I'm now on the path to becoming a master in method certified practitioner, and I'm doing equine assisted therapy alongside, I'm hoping to get to the USA to one of your joint clinics you do with Jim. So don't stop doing those please.

Crissi 41:23
The only way we'll stop is if Jim calls it quits so.

Ronnie 41:27
Yeah, I don't think that's

Crissi 41:28
gonna happen. Yeah, those are, those are really good clinics. Those are the clinics where the auditors actually probably end up learning as much or more than the riders.

Ronnie 41:37
Absolutely and we've got Sue. She's blushing, I think maybe our conversation earlier.

Crissi 41:43
Hi, Sue you're the reason for all this.

Ronnie 41:48
I'll let you read that one, Chrissy.

Crissi 41:50
This is from our friend Sue. She said, I've been studying akido and horsemanship with Mark and Chrissy for over 11 years now. I can truly say that their teachings have changed my life and made me a much better person. Thank you, Sue. You're doing the work though and you're the one who travels to see us, we don't get on a plane.

Mark 42:11
Yeah, and I think we're gonna see

Crissi 42:12
her in a couple weeks. We are, we're gonna see her for a IBO and writing. We have a writing workshop that we're doing.

Ronnie 42:18
What's, what's that about then? What sort of writing?

Crissi 42:20
Any kind. Mark is an author.

He also writes screenplays. We've both written magazine articles, blogs books. So what we end up doing is doing ITO in the morning. And then in the afternoon we have a righting workshop. So basically just introducing people to the different ways you can write, you know, because a blog is different from a magazine, article is different from a book, is different from a screenplay, is different from a short story, is different from a song, is different from a song, right?

So we talk about all those avenues that you can pursue as far as being a writer, and then talk about some things that, some basic skills that will help improve your writing. So it's a really, it's a fun weekend.

Ronnie 43:07
You have so much that you guys do and so many talents, mark you play the guitar and you sing, don't you as well.

Mark 43:14
If you could call it that,

Crissi 43:16
He's being modest. He's really awesome.

Ronnie 43:21
So Christy do you sing or play an instrument of any kind?

Crissi 43:24
I sing in the shower or in the car and I was playing the violin. I played the violin as a child for nine years, going through school. And then I I had a teacher in my senior year who was really hard because I never learned how to read music.

They tried to make me learn music, but I would just, I would listen to the music and I'd play it by ear. And I had a teacher who was really, really hard on me about learning to read music. And by the time I graduated my senior year, I handed in my violin and I said, that's, I'm, I'm never playing this thing again.

And 28 years later, I ended up expressing an interest. Mark got a fiddle for me and I picked it up and I remembered two songs after 28 years and so I've been ridding so much write ting so much that I have not been practicing the fiddle, but I do want to get back to it because I enjoy it.

The violin it's beautiful. Have you ever heard of a piece of music called I think it's called Lark Rising. It's a classical piece of music I'll have to send you. It's absolutely the first time I heard it, I was driving and I had to pull over and listen to it. It's about the bird and the violin is the bird.

I would love to hear it. Yeah.

It is so, so beautiful. It's really emotional yeah, I'll send you a link to it. It's an Absolut beautiful piece of music.

The violin is an instrument that there's really not a lot of in between. It's excruciating when you start because like the bagpipes.

Oh, yeah because it's squeaky and it's scratchy and you hit the wrong notes and it sounds like screeching. So you have to master not only where the notes are when you put your fingers on the fingerboard, but there's also bow techniques. So you have a bow in your other hand and you have to learn how and when to put the pressure on the bow, how to be smooth when you draw the bow across the strings.

I've been toying around with learning the mandolin because it's the same as a violin. Only you pluck it. And I thought, well, that might be better cuz then I'm not running that bow across the springs. So yeah. When you hear someone playing violin or fiddle and they're doing it well, that is a skill and a talent that is for sure.

Ronnie 45:31
There's something called a ukulele. Mm-hmm. , they're lovely. Yeah. Do they have five? Is it five strings or four strings? Four strings. Four, yeah. My friend had one as a present for a birthday, and she's started her lessons but she's giving up because she's suffering with vertigo. So it's not working. Mm-hmm. if you can imagine. Bless her.

Crissi 45:53
There's a question up here from Brenda Depa asking about Aikido. Okay. There you go. So Brenda is asking, we don't have anything similar to Aikido in our area.

What do you suggest to learn. That would at least start a foundation. I am an Ontario, Canada. Hi, Brenda from Canada. You could do a couple things. You could look for Chiang or Tai Chi. Everything. Ballroom dancing. Ballroom dancing would be great. You could look for yoga or Tai chi lessons or classes online.

Some of the things that are important that Aikido fosters is non habitual movement. So as humans and especially as adults, we usually have about 10 movements that we make. We walk, we reach for things, we move our arms. and that's it. And one of the really beneficial things about Aikido and other things like Tai Chi Chigong ballroom dancing, is it gets us out of our habitual movement patterns.

Horses don't have habitual, I mean, they have habitual movements, but they also have a range of motion that is much greater than ours. And that's sometimes what can get us in trouble is they go, you know, four different directions at once and we're used to doing this. So yeah, I would say look into that, like Mark said, ballroom dancing. You can find Tai chi and Aikido online. Anything that encourages non habitual movement is good.

Ronnie 47:16
Tai Chi is that more fluid? Is it the movement that's very fluid? Mm-hmm.

Crissi 47:22
Yeah.

Mark 47:22
Tai Chi is a Chinese martial art that, that has been slowed way down, but when you so it's more form like movement. But when sped up, it's a pretty deadly martial art

Ronnie 47:36
And it's good for balance, isn't it? It's good for people if they've had injuries to help with their balance. Mm-hmm. because of the slow movement.

See if we've got any more questions.

Crissi 47:45
Wanted to say hi to Robin Waggaman. Hi Robin. It's great to have you here. She said some very nice things. Robin's awesome. Robin's awesome. We met her in California and she's now in New Mexico. Wow. Mm-hmm. Big move. Yes. Yeah, there you go, you just picked the question. I saw . Do you wanna read this one?

Mark 48:07
How many of your own horses do you have on your ranch? What do you like to do with them? Trail ride or play on the ground or whatever? We have six horses and most of them are getting older now, so they're either retired or semi-retired.

We have three or four that are still working regularly. We just got a new horse that we're spending some time with and kind of getting to know him. And in the last few years we've been so busy with other things, you know, writing books. And Christy said, I, I also write screenplays for movies and one of them did get made into a movie.

And we've just been really busy with other things. So when we aren't working our horses basically have time off, but we were just talking a couple of days ago that we just was telling Christy I just really want to get back to riding more when we're not working. And so hopefully we'll get a chance to do that this year just have to make time for it.

We have so many things going on that it puts a little bit of a, something has to give and the kind of the easiest thing to let go because it's, it's not just beneficial for us, but it's also beneficial for the horses is just letting them be when they're not working.

When they're working, they work pretty hard. So I don't feel too bad about not doing a lot with them when we're, we're not working. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Crissi 49:36
we usually trail ride. We had a horse that I was taking jumping lessons with he passed away. So not all our horses now are mostly trail riding horses. But like I said, I'll do anything. I just love horses and, and ranch work. Yeah, yeah.

Ronnie 49:53
Yeah and p picking.

Crissi 49:54
That's right, that's right. That's my job. Yeah. Yeah. That's our, that's the foundation of our, our relationship.

Ronnie 50:01
I love poop picking. Well, love maybe's a strong word, but I, I get my inspiration and my, actually that's a bit like meditation sometimes.

Cause I just sort of drift off unless I get stuck in a mud rot and I can't move the wheelbarrow than a few strong words come, come out

Crissi 50:19
Well, it helps.

Ronnie 50:19
Yeah. Yeah. I've decided that it's easier to pull a wheelbarrow behind you rather than push it. Because the more you push it, the deeper it goes and it's that situation where you are determined that you are gonna move wheelbarrow, so you dig a trench. But yeah I was going to say to you, what do you guys do to just relax? You know what other hobbies have you got to sort of switch off a little bit? Reading. Reading?

Crissi 50:45
Mm-hmm. I'm a voracious reader and I don't have the time I used to, so usually by mid-afternoon I'll start reading and I'll read it for a couple hours at bedtime.

Ronnie 50:57
Do you like audio books?

Crissi 50:58
They put me to sleep.

Ronnie 51:00
I really like cuz I listen to them in the car and to sit down and read apart from Mark's book in your book obviously Cause I would take those to bed and read and then it would be like one, two o'clock in the morning and I'm still reading, so I finally if I listen to audio I, I tend to listen on the way to work or somewhere. Yeah, I quite enjoy those but there's something about a book holding a book and opening the pages and the smell of a book when you get a new book mm-hmm. It's just, I like that. Mm-hmm. I like that.

Crissi 51:27
I wish I could listen to books because it would be really efficient. Mm-hmm. , you know we drive so much but I think I downloaded the Lonesome Dove series. It's a long series and I know Mark and I would both be interested and 10 minutes in, you know, the guy who reads it has such a nice voice you know, I'm in the passenger seat and I wake up and I'm, you know where are we, where are we? And then we try it again and 10 minutes go by and it's just this nice voice And so it is just, it's pointless to buy them because they sleep through them . Yeah.

Ronnie 51:59
So he's got a good hypnotic voice.

Yeah. I used to like the James Harriet books. I remember having it was a paper copy, and I think I got them from a jumble cell. There was about five books and again, I was in bed and read those. That was years and years ago. And I loved it because you'd be reading the book and you'd forget that you were in a bedroom I'd be there literally there, and I loved it. And in fact, when I saw this series on the tv, when they brought the series out, it didn't have the same feel but I still liked it and I like it now, but at the time, the book took you away somewhere magical and in that life yeah and the same thing from reading your book. It just took you there and and helped you with your thoughts. I really, really enjoyed it. So what's on the cards for Crissi I'll talk to you first. So what have you got coming up? Have you got any trips to the uk by the way?

Crissi 52:54
We have, we have a couple people strong arming us to go over there. We'll have to get Mark's passport updated though, because currently it is out of date. Oh. So we're not opposed to the idea. It's just I don't know if it'll happen in 2023 and I can't even think about 2024.

Yeah. My second fiction book will be coming out next year. That's what I have coming up. Wow. I'm working on doing the rewrite. We will be traveling January through April and then we'll begin our. Clinics at Happy Dog Ranch near Denver. So yeah, just, just, you know, on a calendar, I have a an actual calendar.

It's not my phone, and you open it up and you can see the whole month. And then on the calendar it always looks pretty well organized and then you start living it and it just turns into this, everything gets bunched up. Mm-hmm. , you know, so I'm always hesitant to say I want to do something or, or try and plan it out until I get closer.

So, yeah just same thing. I mean, I love our life. We have we have time to write, mark has time to build guitars. And we love the work we do. I mean I really couldn't, couldn't ask for more.

Yeah. Living the dream sounds cliche but you are doing what you love and your where you want to be. Which is yeah. It's a lovely thing to be able to do.

I'm just gonna see if we've got any more questions.

Is there anything else that you'd like to chat about? Is there anything else you'd like to bring to the table?

Mark 54:26
No, I don't think so.

Crissi 54:27
You have any plans? Do I have any plans?

Ronnie 54:31
What about the singing the band?

Mark 54:33
Yeah. I'm actually in several different bands. So we do a, a John Denver tribute band. I'm in a classic southern rock band. I'm in a Peter Paul and Mary Little group and was asked to join a more classic rock band. So been working on that.

Yeah been building guitars, so that's been keeping me out of trouble when we're not working. So.

Crissi 55:02
We just had a question pop up from Tomoko and we met Tomoko in the UK the last time that we were there doing a combination clinic with Jim Masterson hi Tomoko. Yeah this question is for Mark

Mark 55:10
Tell me about the lovely truck you guys were riding in this summer. I'm assuming you're talking about the red truck. And the red truck is a 1950 Ford pickup truck, and it is very similar to the truck that Walter drove when I was working with him and it's all original.

So it's from the 1950, it is actually in 1950. His was in 1949, but it was the same, that body style stayed the same from 48 to 50. But it sounds and drives just like the one that, that he had when I was a kid. And so we take it out when we can and we have a couple of old trucks that we like to drive around when we get an opportunity in the summer, in the summer and so, yeah, so that's what, that, that's what that truck's all about.

Ronnie 56:08
But not when you've got lots of snow, which you've got now, haven't you?

Mark 56:12
I was out plowing snow this morning for about an hour and a half,

Ronnie 56:15
so, oh my goodness so how deep was your snow?

Mark 56:18
It's funny because here at the house, it's only about, our driveway is about a quarter mile long and here at, right here at the house, it was maybe four or five inches. But the driveway goes uphill. So it goes where we live at 7,500 feet in elevation. So we're up in the mountains and where our house sits is higher, is lower than where the driveway ends by maybe a hundred feet.

And so it was about four inches here and it was about 10 inches up at the top of the driveway. So just from here to the top of the driveway, there was that much difference in how much snow we had gotten.

Ronnie 57:03
When you get snow drifted as well it backs up at the side of the hills and gets really, really deep.

Mark 57:08
Yeah when the wind blows, we have to be real careful here because it'll, it'll drift in our driveway and we won't be able to get out. So we have to stay on top of it. If the wind starts blowing, we have to really make sure we're out there plowing no longer than a couple hours.

Ronnie 57:23
I can't remember the last time we had a lot of snow. When I was a child I remember walking and obviously I was a lot smaller. Walking through snow and it felt like it was up to your belly button. I'm sure it wasn't really, but it seemed to be yeah, we don't get snow like we used to.

In fact, it's been really mild here in the uk. The grass is still growing. It's, it's starting to slow down now, and we've had flowers and bees still hovering around. I think it was four degrees tonight, I don't know what that is in your temperatures so it feels like autumn, winter is on its way now.

Crissi 57:54
Ronnie we have another question from Brenda. Do you want to answer that and then we can call that Good?

Ronnie 58:00
Yep. So when you are away from your horses for a period of time, do you find that you need to reconnect with them? And if so, how do you do that?

Crissi 58:09
So when we're away from our horses, most of our herd is on pasture right now. I personally don't feel that the connection is ever broken. Yeah, that's a really good question, Brenda. I don't, I don't ever feel as though there needs to be a reintroduction or a reconnection. I feel like that connection is available at any time and my job is to be open to it. You know, I'm not gonna rush up to them and throw my arms around them and hang on their face and kiss them and do all that you know.

Mark 58:40
Since when

Crissi 58:42
I'll wait until 10 minutes later and then I'll do that. Yeah even when we haven't seen our horses for a week or two and we go out on pasture, they will usually come and see us. And so usually what we do is, is I'll let them sniff me and I'll, I'll scratch them, and we check them over to make sure they're maintaining their weight, that they're no injuries.

I like to say hi to all the horses and then after they've said hello, they turn and they wander off. So that's what I found anyway. Mm-hmm. , what do you think?

Mark 59:14
Yep. I think whatever you think, Right. I just found that that's the best.

Ronnie 59:17
Right answer. Yeah. I think it is, isn't it? When we go away, we miss them and we can't wait to get back and see them and then if they're at the top of the field, they might look up and then carry on eating. And we're like, okay, so you're fine.

Crissi 59:33
Yeah. But that's our human perception is though, right? If you get rid of the doubt and the stories and for my part, what I do is, I don't like to word use the word assume, cuz we know what that means.

But I believe in the connection between my horses and I, and so I have no reason to doubt it. I have no reason to tell myself that, oh I've been away and they will forget me. Well, horses have the second longest memory only to elephants, so they're probably not gonna forget me. You know it can become very human-centric instead of going to see our horses and believing that that connection's already there, there's not been a, an interruption, I guess. Yeah. That's a good question brenda thank you.

It is a good question, and like you said, it's more to do with us yeah it's how we are about ourselves and that's a whole other story that could take you down a whole other route. Yes.

Right guys I think that's lost the questions, I'm really, really pleased that so many people have joined us, which is great because mark and Crissi they're sharing their time. So thank you so much for your comments guys.

Would you like to say anything before you say goodbye?

Mark 01:00:40
Yeah. Thank you for the invite to be here today and this has been, this has been great. It's plenty cold outside today, so spending time inside was, was the right thing to do. So as soon as we're done here, we're gonna head over, over to the barn, we've got two horses here now. So we're gonna head over there and get those guys taken care of and go to the grocery store and.

Crissi 01:01:05
Fold the laundry, make dinner

Mark 01:01:07
Yeah that's, that's gonna be our day. But we really appreciate you taking the time and inviting us to come and visit with you.

Ronnie 01:01:14
You are very, very welcome and thank you so much.

Crissi 01:01:17
Thank you ronnie and we appreciate everyone who showed up and asked the good questions. And there's so many people here saying hello and telling us how they've been affected by our work and just really kind words. Really, really nice people showing up and mm-hmm we appreciate that and Ronnie, we appreciate you.

Ronnie 01:01:36
Oh, thank you, thank you very much. Oh, that was so, so lovely to chat with Mark and Crissi.

Once again, thank you for all your comments. It's really important that people support my guests that come on because again it's their time and they are so busy as everybody is. So it's lovely they spare an hour to chat with you guys and answer some of your questions.

Lovely chatting and thank you very much for your support. Really appreciate it.

Take care and bye for now.