Interview with Matthias Geysen - www.matthiasgeysen.com

Interview with Matthias Geysen.
I was very excited to have the opportunity to have Matthias Geysen as a guest on my live podcast.
I came across Matthias while doing some research and saw a video of him riding his stallion at liberty, through the mountains of Montana. 
I was interested in his background so I asked him if he would like to be a guest and happily he said yes.

Of course we'll be talking about his live with horses but also the work he's done in his personal life, regarding his own intuitive development.

English is not Matthias native tongue but he still managed to get his message across and I found the conversation both interesting and enlightening.
So sit back, relax and I hope you enjoy this episode.

Matthias Geysen.
I am someone who likes to explore and expand my boundaries and limitations.
I seek to understand the essence of life. Our personality and individuality as well as our position in the global movement.
What is the reason for our existence and what is it that makes us thrive in this world?

From a young age, I have been interested in unravelling the mysteries of life and sharing these insights with other people.
I realized that we all are actually chasing the same dream, but that we all have to follow our own path in getting there.

For the past 10 years I have been a professional horse trainer which enabled me to explore the world, explaining the life lessons horses taught me over the years.
I have recently moved on to focus on a new adventure and I'm now at a point in my life in which I would like to share my new knowledge with you.
https://www.matthiasgeysen.com
https://www.facebook.com/LaViePurSang
https://www.instagram.com/matthias_ge...

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Contact Ronnie.
mailto:equinevoicesronnie@gmail.com

Transcript

Hello and welcome to Equine Voices my name is Ronnie and I'm very pleased to announce my special guest Matthias Geysen. So I hope I've pronounced that right. I'm sure he'll correct me if I haven't and he lives in France and that I'm going to bring him in shortly to introduce himself.

So I know a little bit about him, but it's from videos that I've seen about his liberty work and traveling around the world and wanting to know more about what life is all about. So I'll read a little something that I found on his website. 

I am someone who likes to explore my boundaries and limitations and the essence of life. What is the reason for our existence, which is a very, very big question. So he can introduce himself, and then we'll find out more about him and we'll start to ask him questions. Hello. 

Hi everyone. Thank you for inviting me for the, for the interview. 

You 're welcome.

Would you like to introduce yourself and just give us a taste of who Matthias is? 

Okay so at the moment I'm 31 years old, so my name is, as you already said before, I'm Matthias  at the moment I'm living in the south of France. I've been a professional horse trainer for the  the past 10 years.

So  my specialty was more like working with the horses with a difficult problem because of the people, just because of the situation because of their surroundings but like you already said before the reason why I stopped because I was explaining so much the same story over and over again that it became just a little bit too tired for me.

So the goal for me is just to help people to get more in connection with their own intuition and their way of being. And I think I can find many other ways just  to help people as well, just without the horses in a different kind of Different kind of direction. So to be honest, I'm very bad with introductions, , like I already said  to you as well before.

So I prefer skipping this part a little bit,  and just, just start asking me questions. It's gonna be much more spontaneous and much more fluid. Okay. When you'll see with when you're gonna ask questions. I'm also gonna talk more about my history and stuff. So it's, it's gonna be fine.

Okay  you can breathe now, you can breathe. . . Okay. 

It's just us two talking. Okay. So if anybody has any questions, by the way, as we go through this, this informal interview, it's a chat really. 

So let's, let's, let's go back a little bit.  When did horses come into your life? How, how did that evolve? 

So for me, I started riding horses when I was 10 years old. So I started together with my dad. Both of us. We didn't follow any lessons. So we just went out always on outside in the fields so we didn't ride in arena.

So it was a beautiful experience. It was a really good time in between me and my dad. But I think,  I was riding for my 10th to my 12 years old. And I think, I think you can imagine if you are 12 years old, being a small boy, riding horses is not the most coolest thing to do . So I decided to actually also stop riding the horses and I became a, a skateboarder.

 Skateboarding like every day from the morning till the evening till I was 18, 19. So what happened during those time? I had lost a little bit of connection with my parents because, you know, it's also a different kind of environment. So what happened? I decided to go back to the horses because I know you know, you're always outside, you're surrounded by the animals.

And also in that way, I was also able to connect back again with my dad. The thing is, when I came back to the horses, he decided to stop working with horses. So I was just left alone , but I was still, you know, every day I was always outside and just developing my knowledge about the horse, but also about myself.

 That's a small, the small introduction. 

That must have been really special going riding with your dad yeah I can imagine that must have been really every really special moment. 

It's a very beautiful, and that's also the thing for my dad, for instance, was a, was very difficult and when I decided to stop with the horses when I was 12, because for him, I think, yeah, you can imagine being a parent if you spend time with your, with your son doing something you both love, of course it's nice to share this kind of experience. So for him was kind of difficult. And that's also, once again, the reason why I came back to the horses to get back in that kind of connection.

But for him, I think he was already doing this for nine years, 10 years. So he was just becoming too tired because I think all of us know it's also a lot of work. You have to maintain the horses, you have to go outside. If it's sunny it is kind nice, but if you go in the rain, the snow, it's, I can't imagine for him after 10 years, he became just a little bit too much.

So that's the reason why yeah, why he stopped. 

So when you came back into horses, what sort of work was you doing? Was it, was it your own, your own business or was you working somewhere else? 

My personal opinion about working with horses, I think if you're gonna approach a horse, and even from in the beginning  I always knew, like it's all about turning. It's, everything is turning about me, about my way of being, my presence. So if I'm, if I'm capable of just being unique and just being me, horses, they want to approach me because it's nice to hang around me. 

So, for instance, the first time when I approached horses, I always had a good feeling, everything was kind of nice. I had a good connection with them. But for instance there were two people that are in the horse industry that personally I, I admire and that was before you had like Ling Ling, I dunno if people, if people know. It's a very nice guy because I, I think he's one of those people who had a good connection with horses.

But I do think, and I'm not gonna talk about somebody's back, but I think he lost a little bit his track, in my opinion. So at the moment, it's less interesting. And then the other person is a Fred Pin, so he's the Frenchman. He's also working a lot of liberty, Liberty work. So the reason why I'm telling this is in the beginning, when I was 18, 19, I came back to the horses.

My dad, my dad was also interested by Clause Ling. And so one day he gave me a book. So say, ah, if you want, again, just  take a look at the book, how he's doing stuff. And so when I look at the book, I'm not, I'm not the person who's really gonna read all the, the, the text. And I'm always looking at pictures.

If I look at a picture, I can see, oh, you know, he's does, he's, he's doing like this, or he has such, kind of connects with the horses. For me, this is much more value than just reading  what he's trying to explain. But still, I think I wrote one of two pages and the day after I go to the horses and what happened for me, the connection was almost completely gone because in my mind, I was thinking, oh, you know, he's doing like this and you have to do this, and you have to.

So I lost completely my instinct. I was copying something from someone else, and the horse's, obviously, they're also gonna feel this. So for me, in the beginning, I knew for me that's not a good way. So I think for three years, maybe four or five years, I was always been being independent. And I'm not joking.

I didn't watch anyone else. So I was always alone in my little field going outside for walks. There were not big  riding stables in the region. So I was really, it's like doing everything alone. And after four or five years, then I was finally capable of looking at other people or seeing their approach about certain situations.

Because at that moment I was strong enough to keep true to myself. And before, when I was younger, I was not able, you know, and that's also one of the, that's also one of the biggest problems I think with most people these days, is sometimes we want to be too perfectionists. Which obviously it's kind of, kind of normal, I think especially for other women when they were 30, 40 years old from in the beginning, it happens often when you're too young. Every but I think we all know 90% of the people who ride horses today are all women. 

So  that's why I'm giving example  with women. So most young ladies, I think that's a big dream for a lot of young women to have a, to have their own horse but it's too expensive. It's too much work. The parents, the parents, they don't allow such kind of stuff. So it's not possible. 

Afterwards they grow up and they're gonna start studying. It's not the moment yet. Then afterwards, they're gonna meet a new boyfriend. It's not the moment yet. Afterwards they're gonna get married, then they're gonna have the children, it's never the moment. 

So then afterwards, when everything is done and they finally have the time to buy their own horse, it's a dream that's coming true for so, so long, they have to wait so long. So I can't imagine in their situation, it's difficult to not be perfectionist and really don't wanna make mistakes because you waited so long.

But because of being too perfectionist, I want to do everything yeah. Being too perfect. That's, that's the worst mistake we can make in my. So that's what I always try to say to people. If you're gonna work with horses, don't be afraid to make mistakes at all. If you just try as much as you can.

If it doesn't function, it's not a problem. If you're gonna make the same mistake twice, it's not a problem. If you're gonna say the same mistake three times, then you have to be careful. Then you have to say, okay, maybe that approach is maybe not the best thing. If you're gonna make the same mistake four times, then it's obviously that you're gonna create some kind of bad connection in between both.

But try once, try twice, and if it doesn't function, just try something else. It's not a bad thing twice as much as possible. And that's the reason why I came to this position, is because I made hundreds, I made thousands of mistakes. And that's the reason how I learned. And that's also the reason why I can explain people how to approach in a different way, because I've been to the same position as them.

So you're right about ladies  coming to horses late. When I was younger, my parents couldn't afford a horse. And if I went for riding lessons, that was like, wow, that was such a luxury and I would be  the child at the window that when you heard the kip clop of the shoes you'd run to the window and you'd go out the door and you'd look at the person sat on the horse mm-hmm and you'd be thinking, oh my God, I wish they'd let me sit on that horse. Obviously they wouldn't but as a child, that's all you wanted and then  when you do have a horse, finally, if you are on your own, you rely on information, videos, books or you go to a school where you learn to ride and learn about horses. So doing your way, which You was very lucky to be able to do that. That taught you so much. 

 It's true I can imagine and that's actually, that's a good opinion.

It's true I have a good connection with myself and that's also the reason why I'm capable of listening to the horse and just adjusting what you're teaching me. So I think that's true. Some people they're not always in the same connection as I say, or maybe they've been through some certain situations in life because of this, they're not able to trust intuition anymore.

So  obviously  that's possible. So it depends what kind of person depends what kind of approach you're gonna use. So that's also the reason why you have a lot of people who are gonna do who are gonna teach people with techniques. For instance, for a lot of people, this can be a good way because they don't have the connection, they don't have the intuition.

So if you, if you can follow an exercise and you can follow a technique that show somebody's showing you. Of course it's gonna help you. So  it can be a good thing, but I do think if you really wanna go to a higher connection, I think this is only possible if you are true to yourself and just try to be unique and try to be yourself.  Depends how far you want to go. 

 If somebody came to you now how do you approach this?  Say somebody came along to you and said, oh, Mattius  I wanna understand my horse more. I want to, to understand what the horse is presenting to me. How do you approach that?

First of all I think if you wanna have a good connection with horses, it's not possible by only focusing on horses. I think it's a way of living.

For instance, let us say 80%, sadly enough 80% of the people did today, they have to wake up and if you do something they don't really like doing, they have to go to a job because  you have the bills to pay, so you're obligated to go. But can you imagine if you wake up and you have to do something that's not a hundred percent in alignment with yourself, it's gonna be much more complicated and really get the connection you need to really connect with the horses.

So everything starts from, in the beginning when you wake up, you have to find some kind of way and that's also something I'm offering that I'm trying to explain now with the program on my platform. I think it's finding a way of really  finding your purpose and finding your goal in life. Not only, not only just about horses, but just in life in general.

If you are able to find this, then you will see that your connection and your intuition with yourself  is gonna explode in million of ways. And  if you're gonna go then to the horses, then you will see it's gonna be completely different kind of connection.

It's a, it's a huge, huge difference. So what I always suggest to people don't focus too much on horses, but try to really find your purpose and goal. And of course, it's a really small sentence, but it's a very difficult, yeah. It's a very big thing. Not easy  for many people so. 

So based on that answer, how would you approach that? A lot of people with horses probably Intuitively know more about them than they realize at times. And I find  if you point that out and let them see that for themselves when you are working with them then they feel it and they understand that more. 

How do you approach that answer to the question if they're not really aware, would you show them?

When I'm working with horses, you mean? 

So you just said, if somebody wants to find a better connection with the horse, you say to them it's about finding the connection to yourself.

So how do you approach that with your clients? 

My experience, what I had before  often the biggest problems that we overthink situations. So if you're gonna approach a horse, and it's also what  you just mentioned before, there is so much  knowledge these days about horses.

He's doing like this, she's doing like this, he's doing like this. There are so many different ways and a lot of people like I said before, you want to be perfect. So we, we try to take as much knowledge as possible, but then what happens if you go to the horses? We overthink so many situations and because of this, it's much more difficult to get some, some kind of connection.

So when I first go to people and I see that they're struggling for some kind of depends what kind of exercise, depends what kind of situation. But what I do often is that they have to focus on something physic. , you know,  there are some people, but not many people can really try to stop the thinking process by overthinking, if you know what I mean.

So with those people, you just have to say, okay, you have to give them some kind of structure.  You have to say, okay if you stand through, try to listen to the birds, try to listen to the winds. I try to feel the winds. If you walk, try to see how the sun is moving, at least if you walk in the riding arena, try to really focus on, on physical stuff.

And because of this, slowly the mind is gonna stop but it's a whole process. And that's also the reason why it's very helpful for other ways, the people who are teaching with techniques, because if you do a technique, then you're focused on the exercise and not so much on your mind, or not so much on the horse.

 If you know what I mean, you're doing an exercise and that's the reason why it's so attractive for other people because it can be very helpful.  Again, depends how far you want to go with the connection. . 

 You also write Liberty for the people that are not aware of who you are.

There are some videos and I shared one, a video of you riding Liberty, bareback and bridless and I think you're in the States, montana.  Montana. Yeah. And that's always looks idyllic.

It looks lovely  and I know some people do that, but they've got there from a different place,  they've got their, from a different way, but yours is very much about listening to the horse  and the trust between each other and that feeling  of just being in sync with each other.

Can you describe a little more about that side of it? 

About a connection? You mean riding a liberty? 

Yeah. So what made you get into that side? Is it just part of the process of your intuition with your horses?  

That's a very big topic. for this, you can go for a long time, so gonna start with a  different kind of approach. If you're gonna ride horses there are many ways the same with connecting. There are many ways how to ride the horse.

Very basic thing we all know is just with a saddle with the reigns. If you wanna go to the left, you pull on the left reign. If you wanna go to the right, right reign and you know, all the basic stuff. This is, this is the first approach. Afterwards. If you want to develop a little bit more, it's gonna be all with the body language and with body weight, so this is already a step  afterwards.

For a lot of people it's already more complicated because you need to be, you have to need, you need to be also in the moment. But your, your body needs to be flexible. Your hips need to be loose. And it's, it's more precise, so this is second step.

Afterwards, if you have a good connection with your horse, because it's also a very big thing that some people don't always realize. I think it's the same in a relationship in between people.  You can be together with someone, but it doesn't always mean that it's a hundred percent, the good person, and people still stay with that person because they're afraid of finding someone else often.

 Fear is a very big problem for, for a lot of situations. So it's the same with the horses. You are always gonna have a good connection with  certain kind of horse or with some horses there is just something, something more special. So when you have a good horse and you're really the moment and you're gonna go outside in the forest or even in the arena, just with your mind, if you're strong enough, you have a good connection.

Just by thinking, going to the left to the right, you will see that your horse is already responding. So this is the third step, this is already much more complicated and only ones in my life that  I've witnessed a beautiful experience where I was working  with my stallion.

I had an Arabic stallion, so with my personal horse, and I was riding outside in the fields and for maybe 15 seconds, maybe 20 seconds my personality didn't exist anymore. The personality in my horse didn't exist anymore. We just became something else. Like the mythological figures, you know, the center exactly the same.

It's unbelievable the experience. As you can see now, when I'm talking to you, I'm, I'm using my hands. See, you got a fraction of a second in between all those movements. It was exactly the same. I just had four legs. So if I want to go to the right, I just went to the right. If I want to start running I just, I had four legs. Can you imagine the connection, how crazy it is? Wow.  When you go to such kind of situation, the whole approach and the whole division about horse is gonna change completely. 

The only reason why I was capable of having such kind of experience is because at that moment, I was in the moment,  I was able to join his I was able to, how to explain this in English.

I was able to get in his world, in his way of being. Yes. So can you imagine how it is for horses? They're always in that kind of position. The only reason why it's not happening is because we are not ready to have such kind of experience mm-hmm.  The thing is what happens afterwards and I have this experience also because of other situations.

The biggest problem that we can have as people afterwards is the desire to have such kind of experience once again. So I'm a hundred percent sure if I want to achieve this again, it's never gonna happen. I'm a hundred percent sure it's never gonna happen because  when you desire something, you create the opposite.

And that's also the reason why I think maybe if I'm capable of just letting go, maybe when I'm gonna be 60 years old, maybe when I'm 70 years old, maybe I am capable of being always in that kind of moment. It's gonna depend off my development and just my way of being.

So, and if it's not gonna be if I'm not able to experience  this situation again, then I just had a beautiful experience once and  I won't forget about it. So .

 Yeah. Wow. I got goosebumps as she was talking there. I understand what you were saying  from  my view, so  you literally feel like you are part of the horse, there's no separation. 

I'm not even part of the horse that's thing, I'm not aware of anything. Just becomes something, it just become, it's, yeah, 

it's a completely different subject, but it's even the same with just being connected with everything. you're gonna walk outside if you have a personal view, then  you're gonna explore the world out of your vision. But there are, there are so many different visions of so many people, you know so I think what I'm gonna  give another example. 

 If you're gonna look at a tree, if you're gonna look at a tree with five different people Yeah.

A hundred percent sure that all of us are gonna see the tree with a different perspective, it's gonna be a different emotion for all the five of us. Yeah. Why? Because over every one of us  is being unique. Okay. So I think the goal of life is to lose that personal vision, to lose your own new way of being and just look at the tree and understand the, the essence behind the tree.

And I think if you are able of doing this, all five of us are able to achieve this point and then  there is no more arguing in between all of us because we know the essence about the tree. Yeah. See, so the thing is, how can we achieve that kind of point is to being in the beginning, being unique and find your personal way to get to that point, and then you are able to let go and then you will see if, if you're gonna walk around everything is gonna be completely different.

You're gonna see everything is completely different. Mm-hmm.  to connect with people. The connection with horses it's a completely different approach of of life. 

Wow that was very passionately put  wow thank you.

 I'll just share a little something that happened to me.

So when I'm driving in my car, for me, driving in my car is the time when I'm doing less and focusing on one thing. Mm-hmm  and information flows to me. Mm-hmm  and I quite often get messages and information. And then sometimes, and this was  one particular time, I've had similar experiences, but this was really a strong experience.

 I was driving to my horse before I was going to work. And as I was driving, I'd already been getting some information about something and when I finished, cuz 

what I do is I use my phone and record it because  as it comes, it's so fast I have to record it. Mm-hmm and when I recorded the message, I literally felt like I was driving my car but I was connected to my car, to the road, to the trees, to the cloud. It sounds really bizarre but there was nothing solid.  It was really beautiful. In fact, I had to ground myself because I thought I've gotta ground myself.

 I knew it was in my car as you when you were sat on your, your stallion but it wasn't there, so similar, maybe not quite the heartfelt as you but it was, it was very powerful and it was beautiful and I could smell the air and I could feel what the tree was feeling.

And this is gonna sound a bit, you know out there, but I was literally part of that energetic field. I was part of everything that I was observing mm-hmm.  But I was driving so it wasn't like I was sat meditating to experie that, I think because I was flowing through something else that was coming through that enabled me to feel my external world even more than I would normally mm-hmm. if that makes sense. 

   This experience you can have in everything, anywhere. Yeah. 

The thing is and that's what you're saying, the reason why how to explain this. I do think it's very important  of course, that you have to stay grounded.

For instance, the experience that you are explaining now and the experience, like I was saying before  with the horse.

This is something normally before I never share to people a lot of things that I'm doing normally I don't share such kind of stuff because it's like, people who talk and they start floating to different kind of ways and it's, you know what I mean, it's like the, the hippie kind of stuff. 

Often it's being connected with such kind of people. So I'm not judging  anyone, but I think, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm.  so often those stories are just keeping them for myself. It's not necessary to talk about them because it's my experience.

Mm-hmm.  now  it's the first time actually because with the platform I'm doing and also because with this interview I do have to explain a little bit more about my vision and my experiences, because otherwise people don't understand why I am capable of riding horses in such kind of liberty or just the way of living because yeah, you have to explain at least something so they understand your vision and your way of being. 

 And that's what this platform is for. It's to chat with people but  you are welcome to talk as freely as you want to. There's no, there's nothing off limits, this is a platform for people that have horses or interest in horses, but for me, it's very much about what the horses show us or bring to us.  And a lot of people  when they have an animal, they want to ride, as you said, they want to look the part, they want to be perfect, but as they spend more time with them, they realize actually there's another way there's, there's something more to this or maybe they don't even realize that, but it changes something about them. 

And I think especially now so for me, and for a lot of people, and for yourself, it's not a case if you have a horse, you ride your horse, you do your horse, and you go to your day job, you go to your day life, it's integrating what that brings to you into every area of your life.

Mm-hmm and intuition is a big thing, the intuition,  watching the subtleties, feeling that subtle feeling. And  how does that work into your day-to-day life? Because  as you earlier said that is the big thing and that's the thing that , when you know more about who you are and your feelings and how things can change and how you see things differently, just by being aware of yourself, that's a huge thing and it has ramifications and it has a knock on effect on many, many things and it's not just contained to you as an individual.

Whoever you come into contact with, you may say something or show them something, and that might be their catalyst to change their world. Mm-hmm. . So it's a knock on effect and horses are a mutual ground where we can have something that we're drawn to but it goes far beyond that, far beyond that.

   So feel free, share whatever you like.

Thank you.  I  can explain also, which is kind of important  to share with people. I think if you're gonna work with horses, and that's also just about life in general, I think  everything is about  some kind of balance.

It's a balance in between the feminine energy and the masculine energy. And I do think if you're gonna work with horses that  if you're gonna approach a horse And you're gonna be too masculine. And what does it mean? Masculine is like, this is gonna be the way and you have to listen and it's very strong, it's not a good approach .If you're gonna be too feminine and too feminine means like, oh you know, the horse and how is he doing? And then, you know, that's too feminine. It's also kind of dangerous. You have to find the ballance in between both if you're able of doing this,  you will see the connection with your horses.

It's a huge, huge difference. And also I do think if you see horses, it's a little bit the same with with the tree. For me, a horse is a  representation of an energy that finds a beautiful balance in between the physical world and the emotional world. So if you're gonna approach a horse to physical, like to masculine, it's not a good thing.

If you're gonna approach with too much emotions, it's also kind of dangerous. If you can find a balance, you  are able to get a good connection because then you're still grounded, but still with a lot of emotions. And I think that's the key  of the good connection with horses, but just also about life in general.

Thank you. That was perfectly said I was smiling when he said too emotional because that's me. 

That's a lot of women, to be honest. Which can be a really good thing as well. But once again, it's about the balance. And sometimes you over exaggerate  the situation. 

 Yes. 

 Another example about horse and I think  makes it more easy for people to understand.  If you're gonna work with horses. I do think, my opinion, if you're gonna work  with a horse, I think it's more easy for men to work with sensitive, let say mares.

And it's more easy for woman to work with a stallion general, just generally speaking. So the reason why is, if you have a beautiful stallion like a beautiful stallion nis and strong, he's making the movements. If you're being a man, you're gonna say, whoa, such a beautiful stallion because  we connect, we know how it is, being proud. And so what's gonna happen? A man riding such a stallion we gonna be the same. 

So the energy is gonna go up, up, up it's gonna be exploding  you know what I mean? If you have a woman who's riding a beautiful stallion, it's gonna be like this. Of course  the woman is also gonna see the movements.

Then after five minutes, she's gonna say, okay I saw the movements calm down,  it's not necessary to be. So it's a big difference. You're gonna create the opposite, and because of this, he's gonna calm down. And it's just the same with the mare. If you have beautiful very sensitive horses you know, if  her horses with a lot of things on her mind, or they're gonna go quick and have difficulties  with giving structure in their way of being, then it's much more easy, often, once again, general for a man riding a horse than a woman.

The reason why is if the mare is going like crazy, the man  is gonna say, oh, you know, just calm down. It's not necessary. There's nothing going on. Just take it easy. A woman is riding such kind of horse. She wants to understand the problem. She's gonna say, oh, what's happening? Why is she doing this? And you just become the same  as the way of being as a horse. So the horse doesn't have a reference point anymore and because of this, you're gonna create a very complicated and difficult situation. So once again, it's just general speaking. 

Yeah I totally understand that my horse is a mare and I'm not as emotional with her as I used to be and tend to be a bit too attentive, which actually made her not worse, but yes it had the opposite effect.  Whereas sometimes now I can be quite matter of fact. And when I do that, her energy comes down because I treat her as if she's not my horse, she's somebody else's, so the attachment's not quite as heartfelt. Mm-hmm.  but just for those few seconds when I achieve that, there's a change. 

If I go and I've got busy head,  lots of thoughts. I don't do a lot with her. I just do what I need to do because  if she's feeling that way too, she'll go off down the field mm-hmm. Other moments when she wants to be a bit closer. I know because there's a different feel about her, so I totally got what you said about. 

There's just one more thing I would like to add. If you wanna learn something about yourself, then it is a good thing, being a man, taking stallion, being a woman taking the mare it's much more complicated. But if you wanna learn something about yourself, that's the better approach. 

 So where are you today? I know you have a new website mm-hmm. . And  you've been doing interviews yourself and you mentioned Frederick. How did you come  to meet him?  

It's difficult to say,  one thing I can say, it's a difficult person to approach, he's living in his own thing, he's a very nice guy, but difficult to approach. So I was very lucky that I also know someone who  when she was small they grew up together with Frederique Magali.  This person is living in, in Australia, and so she connected with me with Frederique. And then I was kind of lucky because at that moment I was  in the pyrenees the, the French pyrenees. So I was filming for the platform and then Fred called me and so I explained  my project, so I told him about my plans.

 Okay, you are able to come, but  it's gonna be  kind of busy for me. So if you come, you have to be by tomorrow.  So I stopped filming put the camper and then we drove for eight hours, I think eight, nine hours to go to his place.

So the interview was nice but I was not really prepared for the situation. So it's okay, but I could have done a little bit more professional but at the same time let's just the way it is, you know for instance, I want to ask him a lot of questions. The questions were fine but I think you know how it is because you are doing the same thing.

It's very important to ask the good questions in the good moment. Also, with the camera I only had one camera. If you do it with two or three, you know, you can make it a little bit more professional but at the same time, it's not about the setup, it's about the interaction in between us and the conversation.

 So anyway the reason why I love what he's doing is because  that's one of the people just in my opinion who's really able to be in the moment and just connect in a way that I do think that goes further than just only being around horses.

So, to give a little small example,  these days more and more people start doing the liberty kind of work, or they're gonna give spectacles and, you know, different kind of stuff, which is a beautiful and a good thing. But often it's some kind of rehearsal. So if you go to a show and you have a lot of people sitting around and the horse is gonna give a different kind of reaction from lot of people, it's difficult to handle this situation because they have a routine, you know?

And with Fred, the league, the reason why his spectacles are always so beautiful because. When the horse is doing something different, which has not rehearsed before, he's just improvising. He's being in the moment and he's just going with the flow. And even if there's so many people around him and I think  that's a very strong, a very strong how to say strong point of him, it's just him. This is only possible if you are able to be in the moment a little bit like I was telling before and once again if you do something like this with, with two people watching, it's already nice. But if you do it with 500,000 I don't even know how many people sometimes there are but  that's next level. I really look up to such kind of person so.

 Like I said, you have a new website and you want to do More work? What is it that you are wanting to go forward with? 

Okay, so like I already told you before, so for me it's more about understanding the bigger picture. That's the reason why I stopped teaching  with the horses, not too long ago, is because I felt too much limitations. If you give a clinic, it's only two days, so you can help people  in many ways, but still you have to show at least, what I would like to do is you have to show how people have to live in a certain, certain kind of way you know? 

So two days is it's not enough. So that's the reason why I created this platform is because also one more thing before is people saw a couple of videos about me, but if you didn't follow a clinic that I was giving, people don't have any idea at all how I was approaching horses because of my Facebook page, I didn't write so much about methods or just about my personal vision. 

So with the platform, this is the first time I'm really able to just explain about many, many things. Once again, not only just about horses, but also about life in general. So yeah for me, it's a, it's a really good exercise because also, I really don't like electronics.

 I'm a guy who's, who likes to go outside and just be in nature. So, because this is, for me something new and something I really don't like doing that much, I do think it's learning a lot about myself as well. So I think it's a, it's a good thing and in the future I would like to create again, the possibility that I can invite people so we can work a little bit with horses, not with riding but I would like to explain people what they represent and with horses obviously you can show,  when you think too much, it's much more easy to explain certain things to people. Mm-hmm. But that's, that's something I'm gonna explain on another time because it's gonna be a big project and that's, that's for another time. 

So you're gonna invite people along to, to the 

 Yeah so the first stage is I'm gonna invite people, but then once again, it's gonna be a whole project. I still have to figure out a couple of things and then when everything is really a hundred percent that I can start speaking about. The mm-hmm. New the new approach. 

So I know you said you don't like the technology side, I mean this was all new to me before I started. It wasn't something that I was aware of, I didn't understand it totally. But I was drawn,  I follow my  intuition. And sometimes I'll do things and I have no idea why and it's like, really? And I started doing these and I started to ask people if they'd like to come on for a chat and you know talk and to my surprise most people have said yes, which you know, I'm still so grateful to that and yourself too I don't go delve in and looking at everybody.

 If they cross my path,  that person feels right. I'll ask them on, which is what happened to you. So, I don't huge amount amount about you but I'd seen you for the last few years I think, it was the Liberty video and you was talking and I thought, you've got such a nice voice  and what you were saying was on my wavelength at that time, it was something I was looking at and that's how I work, I work with my intuition.

I do enjoy this cuz I get to meet people that I probably would never meet. And for you the platform is going to be something that will spread what you believe and hopefully help other people too. 

For sure and  I completely agree with him.  For my platform, for instance I interviewed three people, so people you know also to explain a little bit more about certain kind of approaches with horses. And it was the first time I was really speaking to other horse teachers.

So it was very interesting for me to see how other people approach their life situations or their difficulties with horses. So for me it was very, very interesting to see. And I do think because of this then I started realizing it's difficult to explain, like I really do think that my approach, for instance, is  very strong, connected with daily life and everything I'm learning in daily life. I try to adjust with horses and this is not something because of this experience, not everybody is doing the same approach which is kind of obvious of course, but still, I didn't knew how much the big difference was in between all of us.

So I was kind of ful and it doesn't mean like I'm better  or not at all even it's just a, just a different approach yeah. So it was interesting to see. 

 Yeah. And it's through interacting and meeting and chatting with other people that you, you realize where you are in your life and where they are.

You can see somebody that's maybe on YouTube or have a strong following and you can like what they do  you know, that's, that's lovely and they get the results but either side is slightly different. As you said and for me, it's about waking in the morning and having that same ethos of where you wanna be in your life, who you wanna be and you want understand what is life about. 

It's not just about getting up in the morning, going to work, coming home and doing the same thing every single day. That's an old version of what we thought life was about. Life is so much more and if we take a chance and do one small thing that we really wanna do, because it gives us passionate, it makes us enthusiastic, that's a start of something.

 If we understand that more about ourself, then opportunities come along. Mm-hmm.  and doorways open, so you can almost step forward into the next bit. It's like having a blindfold on and trusting that when you take that step, there's something there underneath your feet. There's something not to be afraid of and learning about what you're capable of and who you thought you was. You know a few years ago is not who you are today. 

Yes. It's a lot bigger than the world we think is out there. There's a, there's a whole nother world that we don't see. Mm-hmm. , it's, it's not visible, but we can tap into it just as easy.

Yeah. But it's, it takes some time. It's not always that easy, but it takes some time to reenter it. That's the thing. 

Yeah.  we could go on a whole different subject there but it's, it's possible, it's possible for everybody.  Somebody can say, well, that's okay for you to say that's your life, you know. 

 The thing is and that's that's really something I saw often, for instance, about my situation and I'm pretty sure other people think, oh, you know it's kind of easy for him you know like you said, it's kind of easy. He was maybe kind of lucky. He has a good intuition  you know he's not struggling, he doesn't have any problems but it's completely the opposite. 

people have no ideas, all the things that I've been through, but because of all those situations, I was able to, to learn to develop as a person I'm today. And that's what every person you see that has a little bit of fame or he established something. Often those people, they really have struggled into many, many difficult subjects in their life. And that's just the reason why they came to that point. And that's really something I do think that a lot of people, sometimes they, they're on under underestimate.

So I think every, every person is always going not a hundred percent the same but you know kind of going to the same phases of life and everybody's everybody's approaching on their unique way, but you still have to overcome  the same problems. That's just the way it is. 

Yeah so, it's not about seeing life through Rose Tinty classes and thinking everything's lovely but how you approach that.

You can. See something  and really take it to heart and get an emotional involved with that. Or you can take a step back, especially if it's nothing to do with you, it's not affecting you at that moment, then you can observe it and you can have empathy, but you don't need to feel that because it's not happening to you.

That's not your life, this is where you are at this moment in time and again it's not quite as simple as that but my changing how, my mindset has been the biggest thing and not being a victim, whatever happens, you deal with it and then you move on.

I'm not a victim. I'm in charge of my life and how much I achieve is down to me too.

And I think it's very nice that you, that you already came to the point that you realize this but for a lot of people this is very confronting because then it means  every move you make in life is your responsibility.

This is very difficult to deal with the situation and that's why it's very easy to say, oh, you know because of this I'm not capable of doing this. It's very easy to blame something else, someone else. Like you were saying live it is not always fair.

It's just the way it is. It's about you.  How you're able to deal with that situation  at that certain kind of moment and then once again, it's kind of confronting for other people because it's yours responsibility. And  one of the good things, I think also in life in general, but also just about our connection with horses.

If you're gonna  work with a horse, they're always gonna show you. But even then, people gonna always blame something.  I think that's typical being human. 

 Yeah I used to beat that person though you know why is this happening to me? But the more you think that way, the more of it comes. I figured out through my own learning that when you realize that actually you are the only person that can change something and it's down to you.   I'm lucky that I'm single, so any decisions I make is down to me but if you've got a family and you know you've got children, it's more difficult, you are thinking about everybody else. But actually that's when you need to pull back and think about yourself because if you are unhappy, if something's not right for you it's not hidden the others can feel it. But we are going down a different route now so.

I do think it's interesting because  you say for instance, you're lucky for instance, you're being single. It depends how you see certain kind of stuff. I think being single or having a family, both of them have positive and negative sides, it's just the same. So I do think even if you have a family, of course in a lot of situations it's gonna be more complicated. But  the other hand, for a lot of situations, also much more easy because you have your family surrounding you. We are gonna help you overcome the problem, at least if you have decent family.

So everything is, once again, even in your family, everything is gonna turn around you. If you are fine with yourself and you just accept, your way of being a good mom, obviously your children are gonna love you because you are being you, you know, and I think it's, it's kind of the same if you are living alone or with the family, still  about your way of being.

Yes but what I was trying to say was if I made the wrong choice, it wouldn't affect others. It would just affect me. So on that Level. It was maybe slightly easy yeah. 

 So where are you today? What have you got planned coming up?

At the moment, so normally I live in the south of France. Like one hour, one hour and a half from a ux. But at the moment for people who don't know, so when I stopped working with horses it was, for me, it was a very big change because, I also at the moment, I was a single, so I broke up with my girlfriend so she bought the riding stables.

So I quit my job. I quit my house so I bought a camper car, and with the camper car I traveled around. So I did the whole coast of Portugal and Spain. The reason why I was doing this is just because I was working too much before I was working seven and seven, I was giving so many clinics abroad in different kind of countries.

When I was going back home, I had all the interns waiting material questions, so I didn't have any personal time anymore. Also, not with the girlfriend, but just, just in general. So I just needed to resource just connect with myself again. 

So I traveled around, it was a beautiful experience but after a couple of months, I'll say a year, you know, you can travel for a long time but at the moment I want to start back again with a new chapter. So I went back to France. I was creating the platform. So that's created. So now I'm teaching people online and at the moment now I'm in Belgium because I have to sell my camper car.

And just talking about commercial stuff in Belgium the camper cars are much more expensive than in France and also, that's not the only reason. So I'm also here because my family's still living in Belgium. Now, this sounds very very bad that I gave the first reason was for the camper car. I came back for the family.  All the, to the grandma and grandpa and the parents and Sister. In a week or so, in a week or two I going go back to back to France.

 So you don't have any horses at the minute? 

Well at the moment in France, where I'm living there the horse are just standing like 200 meters. There is a riding arena but almost no, no people. So it's very nice. They have a lot of fields. They're always standing outside. It's very calm. It's a beautiful riding arena as well. 

At the moment I'm not riding anymore, but if I would like to, there is a possibility.

So what I'm doing now at the moment, for instance So if you go to horses, there are many ways how you can approach and learn and my position now, where I'm standing now is when I go to the horses once again, the, the example for every horse is representing some kind of feeling.

So my gelding before it he was a stallion now geling. He has something very very sensitive, but also proud, the movement he's making. So when I go to him, I try to understand how he is, and I try to integrate his feeling and try to do the same in my life.

And the same is my mare. She has something very, very sensitive and it's a softness at the moment that I'm not able to understand yet.  She's on another level, so I'm trying to understand a little bit more about her vision and how, how she's seeing things. So this is just possible just by sitting next to them, just watching feeling and seeing. Yeah. 

 They sound lovely. What are your horses names? 

One horse the gelding is  Killamanjaro that the name I gave It's a Spanish horse and you know the Spanish people and the other horse is  Cleo is the mayor.

 Was riding in the video that went viral that I was riding in liberty outside. And also that's something I would like to explain to people when I was making the video, for instance, because not all people. But  I do think some people think it's kind of irresponsible riding outside without a reins and a saddle or without a helmet.

Especially English people, Belgium people and, and Dutch people, , they're more critical. Not judging on other countries, but that's just in general. So the reason why I made that video, even when I was starting filming, I was thinking, if I gonna go outside on the streets I'm gonna show this to people, you know, because that's maybe a step too much.

But at the other hand, I'm not showing off. I'm even the opposite. I was even doubting of not showing it to people. So the reason why I did show this is because that's just being me. You know for me it's an exercise. So, 

For instance, when I just start doing this, it's not like, oh, I'm just gonna jump on the horse and we're gonna go outside on the streets, that would be irresponsible. But you do it step by step.  For instance, in the beginning you do it inside the arena, just see how she's moving you, you make everything more sub, subtle, sub, I dunno how to say in English, more, more sensitive. If you are capable of doing this and the horse is calm and you feel comfortable afterwards, you go outside in nature.

If this is working fine, then you go to another step. And the reason why I'm always developing and pushing my boundaries is  just to get the connection better with myself and my horse. So to give an example, First time, if you go outside, you know the environment, there is no problem.

But the first time, if you know there was a small road, like a hundred meters  in front and you know that maybe two times a day, four times a day, there's only one car passing by. You know, still, if you know there are almost no cars and you already crossed the road for more than thousands of times.  Even if I'm as a person I'm calm. So I'm not someone who's gonna stress  like crazy. 

So when you're approaching  the road 50 meters before, I don't know  the English terms, let I say 50 feet, when you are too much in front, even if I don't think too much about a situation, but just my stomach that's turning a little bit, you know, she starts walking quicker but there is no rains, there is nothing, nothing to hold on.

So the only thing that can change  my horse or the situation is my way of being. So that moment, you really just have to be even more  in the moment, connect even more with yourself in the horse than just the, the bigger picture. 

So that is the reason why I try to push my boundaries, because  this is learning much more about myself.

And afterwards, when this is functioning, I try a little bit more complicated and you keep developing. So it's not for showing off at all. It's  the opposite for me. It's just learning about myself. 

 So  you are reading your energy and you are feeling what's happening, and as it fluctuates into a different feel, you are adjusting what you do as you go along.

Mm-hmm yeah. 

Yeah and that's showing you that you are listening, your horse knows that you're listening because they can feel the change in your energy, your body.  So it's a conversation. You are having  an non-verbal conversation all the time, even when you're silent you're communicating.

It's about the emotions, give another example. For instance, if you're gonna train horses. So if you're gonna train horses, there are many ways how to how to say this in English. Breaking in a horse training, first time, putting a saddle on and everything else.

So you can train a horse very physical, you can desensitize your horse to get on his back so he doesn't get spooked over all  the movements around, you know, you can do it with a carrot stick with a bag, there are many ways. So that's one approach. 

But at the other hand, There is another approach, and that's the one that I'm doing and it's more interesting for me as a person.  It's just about understanding the horse. If you are able, as a person, if you see the horse in front of you and you know what they represent, you understand some horses, they're really soft. Some other horses, they have something very playful. Some other horses, they have something very grounded. You know there are many different kind of characters. If you are, as a person are able to understand what they represent and I'm able to adjust my way of being my energy to that horse, then  you cannot imagine, takes me two minutes, five minutes and I can just go on the back  without anything because there is no reason at all for the horse to get spooked.

We are exactly the same, but it's difficult sometimes to get to that point. And to give another example, sometimes it happens when, when I had a, a family party or that's what I see also with other places, and you have couple of horses and  you always have parents with small children, very small children. You know, even babies, they say, oh can I put my baby just on the back from the horse? And I would just keep holding it, you know, they say, sure, no problem. 

Did you ever saw a horse getting spooked or going crazy?  Maybe it can happen when there's a very slim chance.

The reason why is  if you know how a horse, how his way of being is, he's just being calm. He's just standing there. If you put a baby  on the back of a horse, normally depends the age, but normally it's just pure love. It's a nice feeling and it's comfortable. It's something extra, it's something warm on the back.

So why would you take such kind of stuff away? He hasn't, he doesn't have a reason to kick it off. Mm-hmm.  what happens? We as persons, we  grow up. We're gonna develop, we are gonna become more afraid about certain situations. We're gonna overthink situations. As a person, we change.

Afterwards if you're gonna get  on the back of a horse and with fear or just overthinking. It's a strange feeling for the horse. He's just thinking like, what's this thing of my back? You know? So he doesn't understand, so tries to kick it off. So that's, that's how I see things.

So I try to really understand how I can develop as a person, try to adjust to the horse. And then  to be honest,  I'm not gonna say never, never, but there was a very slim chance that really something dangerous will happen. And it's also the reason why when I gave clinics or for instance  the video that  you spoke about before when I was writing the Mustang in in America, in Montana.

 He was already trained before by another person the owner. So she was riding with a saddle and only once in a while with the neck rope. But like I said, some horses, you just feel certain kind of connection and that was one of those horses. So it was very easy to just put the saddle off.

Just see how he's responding to the body movements. And this was kind of nice. Just put the neck rope away, straight away in the arena. Took me maybe five minutes, maybe even less. So just perfect, just walking, see how he's responding, starting trotting, everything is fine. A little getup, everything is fine.

And then afterwards, and that's a  very big difference in between many people. For horse, if you ride inside the arena without anything, it's a beautiful experience, a hundred percent. But the moment when people go outside, People start overthinking and say, oh, what's gonna happen?

Maybe, you know if the horse is gonna get spooked you know and that's something that's a difference between me and some other people. I  still have enough  confidence for me there is no difference  in the arena or outside the arena. I, I even feel sometimes more  calm outside than inside arena.

And it's just the same for horses. Everything is natural outside. So that's the reason why we just went outside and we started filming and we had a beautiful video. And this happened often with a lot of clinics. If you just feel and understand the horses riding without anything in the beginning, you can say, oh, it's kind of a beautiful experience.

But once you get used to this, to be honest, it's  kind of natural. There's not so much special about it. 

I think it's because it looks free and deep down, I think most people wanna feel that about themselves and the horse yeah so you have that relationship because you've worked at it and you understand it and you feel it. If people had a fraction of that feel, that would be an amazing place to be to, you know for them and myself included.

 Just one thing so for instance I was lucky enough, and only lucky because I made my  choices coming this direction.

But you're talking about that feeling of feeling a little bit free  but this, you can have in everything, what you're doing in life. So maybe some people don't have this kind of feeling with horses, but they can have the same feeling with doing something else. So if you can find that kind of feeling, which doesn't matter what kind of exercise or what kind of thing you're doing in life, then maybe you can just think about the situation, try to develop a little bit more that direction.

And  you will see that feeling, that inner feeling, that freedom is gonna develop 10 times more and  in a way that sometimes you cannot even imagine. Mm-hmm. . But what happens often And that's always kind of difficult even if you have such kind of experience. A lot of people always also fear this experience because it's sometimes it's so beautiful that you know, oh, maybe it's not true, you know, and you just break it yourself.

Because dreams are sometimes too beautiful to become true. Yeah. Saying that's what they think, but I don't agree.  Not at all. No. 

 Yeah, and I suppose the fear sometimes, if they think, if that's available, then, then I could change a lot in my life and that's a big thing to think about depending on, on where you are.

Yeah I've really enjoyed this chat and I do feel like it could have taken a whole different route. 

    If there was one piece of advice or one thing that you'd like to say to somebody just to give them inspiration about themselves what would you advise, what would be your thing to say? 

 If you are able just to find your, and that's very difficult to explain, but if you're able to find your purpose or goal in life, you will see that everything is gonna change in so many ways.

The thing is, it doesn't mean like, when, when you found this, it doesn't mean like everything is gonna be very smooth and without any troubles. Not at all, because you're still gonna come across your obstacles. But the big difference in between both is, if you find your energy or you really your purpose, then you will feel the motivation to still continue and still thrive on your way.

If you don't have this, you also gonna have obstacles, but every time you're gonna cross an obstacle, you're gonna get a little bit more beat down. You become more negative, you don't know why, and  you wanna blame other people.  So I do think that that's really the key of, of, of really everything, to be honest.

But then, yeah, once again, how.  If you want to achieve that one, that's, that's the whole process. And  that's what I'm trying to offer  in the program that I created so. 

 It's been fascinating chatting to you.  Like I said, I didn't know huge information about you, but that's how I prefer.   So for me to chat with somebody and get to know them face to face, it's different. Of course, it is a better way and I'm always guided by what comes along to me. 

So you crossed my path, I asked you and and it was a little while ago and we finally got together, which is great.

 So thank you so much. You're welcome. Thank you for inviting me. I appreciate No, you, you're truly welcome. 

Okay I'm wish you guys all the best and maybe we see each other again and  in the future, different projects or different interviews or maybe I'm gonna get invited back again by Ronnie, you never know.   

I found that fascinating and I wasn't sure what to expect, but I can feel what he's trying to say, what he's trying to do is definitely something to look into and I definitely would like to have him back again.

 His website will be at the end of this video. You can watch this again if there's anything that you'd like to recap over or contact Mattus himself and he will explain more about what he does  and where he is going in the future. 

 I do hope you've enjoyed it.

My guests come, it's their own time that they give and share their knowledge and their experience in their life.

 Thank you to my guests, speak to you soon.

Thank you, bye for now.