Podcast Interview with Tom Mayes - Integrated Equine Therapies

Interview with Tom Mayes - Integrated Equine Therapies
I'm excited to announce an interview with Tom Mayes from California USA.
I've been aware of Tom for a while but after listening to his story on a recent podcast I realised I knew very little of about him, however, everything he talked about is right on my wave length.

It was only when one of my listeners mentioned him in a message that I thought why don't I ask him if he would like to be a guest on my podcast and I'm very delighted he said yes.

Tom has a wealth of knowledge and I was so struck by how many similarities we had, from an energy point of view.  It felt like I was talking to an old friend
(Which to be honest, I feel with most of my guests)

So sit back, relax and I hope you enjoy this informative, enlightening and deep conversation about all things horses and human and so much more.

Tom Mayes.
Tom is Clinician, Educator and owner of Integrated Equine Therapies.
Integrated Equine Therapies is a highly effective approach that addresses the core causes of lameness, metabolic and emotional dysfunction. 
He integrates cutting edge proven modalities to resolve acute and chronic issues at their deepest level thereby restoring normal function.

Tom is formally trained in Osteopathy, Applied Kinesiology,  CranioSacral, Acupressure TCM, Myofascial Release and Reiki. 
He has studied with world-class professionals in proven ancient therapies and modern cutting-edge modalities. 

He is also the creator of “Integrated Equine Therapies,” a highly effective approach that addresses the core causes of lameness, metabolic and emotional dysfunctions. 

He was born and raised in the mountains of the western United States. Having the freedom to explore vast open spaces left an indelible mark on him, his sense of adventure, and his great love of the natural world.

Tom’s fascination with science and healing has been influenced by his father, Darrel M. Mayes, who is noted for developing the first accurate tests for hormones and was a world-renowned researcher in the field of Endocrinology. In fact, he was considered for nomination for the Nobel Prize in Science.

He instilled in Tom a deep respect for scientific methods and research; and
emphasised the importance of verifying results.
At the age of 12, Tom would sit in lectures at the medical school near his father’s lab. He realised that for all the great achievements of
modern science, something was missing, something deliberately set aside, something core.
Since those days of budding awareness, Tom’s life has focused on defining and illuminating that missing essence through teaching, healing, and sharing. 
He continually explores weaving technique with intuition, integrating the left brain with the right brain and merging Newtonian physics with quantum physics. Regardless of the approach, however, it all comes from the heart and trusting one’s intuitive intelligence.

Tom has a martial arts background, degrees in Environmental Science and Medical Anthropology and in his previous career, spent 20 years teaching science and math to children. He has received numerous awards and is recognised as a four-time recipient of the “Who’s Who Among America’s Teachers Award.”
Tom is well known for his ability to turn aro

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Contact Ronnie.
mailto:equinevoicesronnie@gmail.com

Transcript

Ronnie: 0:11

Welcome to Equine Voices podcast and I'm very, very pleased to have a lovely guy, Tom Mayes. He is an osteopath, a craniosacral acupressure, myofascial release, and he also does Reiki and he's also a medical intuitive. So without further ado, I'll bring Tom in. He can introduce himself, explain a little about what he does in his work.

Tom: 0:34

Hi. Honored to be here, thanks for having me on.

Ronnie: 0:38

You're so welcome.

Tom: 0:41

I work basically with horses to help people awaken, to expand, basically, would be the mission statement. You know, your standard private sessions were being called to a horse and the horse's got a lameness issue. It has a metabolic issue. Anymore, metabolic issues are the norm, And emotional and path issues. So I work primarily in in the old days, it would be Acupressure Chinese medicine, uh, as long with a lot of applied kinesiology and bone movement and things like that. I Gravitated about, uh, twenty years ago now to osteopathy, and that, um, that field of which In Europe is somewhat familiar. It came from the US, the eastern US, but, um, in the United States And now I've seen it all over the world. Traditional deep effective osteopathy is pretty, uh, scarce a lot of times. And even the Colleges even in Australia, I'm finding out, are kind of teaching allopathic pharma. And, But, basically, what I do is I address horses and go into their deepest dysfunctions. And so To really find the deepest physical issues, lameness, whatever with horses takes you to their path issues. And, Oh, I don't know. Probably about twelve years ago, I'd be working on a horse, and it seemed like every session, they would stop me, Look at me. The ground would change, and then they'd go to their owner. And so I embarked on the fact that If you're connected energetically, physically, emotionally with a horse, they will take on Your biggest dysfunctions in their body in a way that helps illuminate it for them, for you, and helps mobilize its transition to to, uh, to beauty, if you will. So, um, they are now to me the most, Um, effective I call them functional MRIs to the, uh, my veterinary students, and that is, uh, they will constantly show me The biggest issue where all the dominoes fall in their human partner over and over and over. And, um, so that's where my passion really lies because it's a whole dynamic of the whole of what Equus is here for and also how to clear their body and the human itself. Uh, along with that, I gravitated about, I don't know, ten years ago, maybe twelve at the most, to teaching, This my method both on a physical level from different levels all the way up, and now that probably is eighty five percent of what I do in terms of this This space, um, my goal is to help people. They come into my clinics, and they leave, Uh, more themselves. They lead a different person. They lead more them and more expanded. It's just the nature of it, and I would say it's not just me by myself. There's a lot of help that's always in play there. I can't believe what goes on in these clinics in terms of the synchronicity level just, Expands exponentially. My wife, Yolanda, she, um, began doing cranial sacral on humans, Um, quite a while ago now, but, uh, after I had already gotten in into it deeply. And she, um, has incredible ability to, Uh, go into your physical tension much like I do, but very different. And, uh, then embrace it, hold it, and then Begin to to ask the body, ask the person, ask the soul what's really holding that. What is the real issue here? And then the tissue unwinds. So she she has incredible results as well. She does, uh, admin for the clinics and also will help, um, physically and, uh, on on people directly that are in the clinic to open up. And, um, the changes when she does that In terms of what people can do on horses, students, is phenomenal. So, um, anyway, That's basically what I do, but I would say osteopathy, if you're gonna put a key phrase on that, is the bigger key Modality that, uh, that would be in play, um, I gravitated to that way over, Acupressure Chinese medicine, they all have huge relevancy, and I use muscle testing a lot to, Not really for me, but to, um, I use pain responses on the owner to get them to truly understand What's going on with their horse and maybe simple things that are big things like, uh, your feet in neurotoxic fees. Let me show you what that feels like. And, um, so I do that a lot, but the intuitive spirit connection is always First foremost and always the essence of everything I do, every other technique is simply an expression of it.

Ronnie: 5:54

That was a brilliant explanation, Tom. Thank you so much. so I was reading about Your father Daryl, was he the scientific person behind? Yeah?

Tom: 6:05

Yeah. So that's an interesting interplay. He was a world class endocrinology Biochemist researcher, he had, without a doubt, the world's most advanced sensitive endocrine lab in the world for years. And so he was the first person to develop truly sensitive, usable hormone testing way back in the sixties and seventies, And he continued that up towards the end, he was probably the leading pediatric endocrinology consultant that there was. And anyway, he came from you know, that background in those days, science and technology was gonna Was gonna solve every problem right and so you know, I would be around that because I basically grew up in a hospital lab setting, And I would be a little kid listening to conversations from all kinds of MDs to lab techs to whoever, and, I would put my two cents in, and it didn't have the, um, it well, certainly, as a young child, the academic prowess that they would have, so they would always dismiss that. You know? But, uh, he was not open to energetics at all. Yet inside of him, it was. So when I would bring it up, it therefore caused a pretty big rift because I was pushing his button And telling him to awaken and look at things a little bit different. And so I would see different energetics in people. And when I would learn, oh, that organ that organ is related to that organ, I could just see the one part of the energy would go down there. It would rob some other or whatever. And, um, that was certainly not well taken by his colleagues. But The beauty of it though was I really do like the scientific method on its own. I like left brain. You know, it took me a while to realize left brain is a great, uh, assistant. It is not Supposed to be in charge. And so I utilized the left brain as a wonderful now it took a long time for me to do that because I was So inundated with left brain was dominant and always had to be in charge. And up front, on the thought process and feeling process, I use it as a beautiful working assistant that gives me information by deductive logic, and then sometimes I'll go into a deductive protocol but no it's the intuitive right brain. It's the heart that leads, and that's where the power is. That's where the discernment is, and That's where the efficacy is. But, uh, learning to verify results like a scientific method, to me, I'm still I still embrace that. So there's a part of me would still love to work with open minded, I don't know, veterinary clinics, veterinary hospitals, Uh, researchers and because there's so much that people like us can show the physiological causes of things that are not known and you can verify and test it and so I love that. Um, I'm gonna stay in the heart space first, but it's got to, What the natives over here say is no matter how woo woo you are, it's gotta grow corn. That's what they say. Meaning, it's gotta show proof right here in that here and now otherwise, it's just sort of up in the ethers, and it's spinning around doing nothing. It's gotta have traction here on the earth. So, Um, Yeah. Studies would be good. So I got that from my father, and that I'm grateful for. Uh, it also pushed me To be bold enough to follow my own way, and that certainly wasn't their way. You know?

Ronnie: 9:42

How old was you when this was going on? How old was you?

Tom: 9:48

The earliest memories that I can remember getting deeply involved in what they were really saying was seven, and that kinda continued up and then certainly as a teenager and I think what happens, you know, as a teenager, I'm trying to fit in, and I'm like, uh, well I'm gonna be a doctor. I'm gonna do this. And, um, So I got ingrained into the left brain. You know? Okay. So I kinda threw some of the flow a lot of the flow to the side for a while. So it's that I think a lot of us get on that path of remembering who we are. You know? And, um, I mean, I think that's what I do for a living with people is I just have them remember Who they were when they came in and how to plug in their frequency to the horse. And you know I would do that early on. And then when I went to college as a pre med major, I think I was, yeah, I was in the second year, and I just remember being in a biochem class and finally realizing There's they literally worked hard in the academic, uh, community to shut spirit out, to shut The passion out. It to shut any real deep sense of what we're here for and what really drives the physiology in the first place. And I got up and left, and that was the end of that, and I went into medical anthropology after that. So I shifted I tend to do that. Okay. That's enough of this, and I just that's it. Turn the corner, and away I go. And so that was a great That was a great, um, change in the path for sure, and that kinda took me down a different way.

Ronnie: 11:18

I think it's about balance, isn't it? So Yeah. Uh, you can be very Spiritual, but you're still living a human life on this planet, so you've got to integrate both together you can't remain, I want to be there because it's so nice. It's so lovely because you're here to experience life, And it's bringing that energy into the human element and to experience it from both perspectives. So It's that balance and for you, there's scientific side. So, obviously You've come here to, we've all come here to have a purpose. I don't mean it like that, but you've definitely come in to show through horses and interacting with people and having both skill sets, so scientific and spiritual. Because if you're talking to a cowboy or a guy that's not really that way, doesn't mean to say he's not intuitive. He just doesn't view it that way. So you can speak to him on a different level so I think having those different skills are important. And The fact that you had them early on, you was trying to tell your dad, which is quite funny Oh, yes. Yeah is proof in itself. I'd like keeping a fly on the wall when Yoon is doing

Tom: 12:29

that. Yeah. I would like to go back and view that as well. I know, Some of the things that we had the most heated arguments about, um, end up now being true. At the time, they didn't have enough skill to see that, you know, Certain things will cause dysregulation of the hypothalamus will absolutely cause x, y, and z, and I could see that energetically because that's where it really exists. And, um, you know the funny thing about that is when he passed, Of which somehow I had to on a path level help him to get through that. Wasn't more than a month later, I started getting all these horses with all these endocrine issues and started seeing physical Causation, like biomechanical torsions that are there twenty four seven and what they meant to the horse's endocrine system. Some of it I knew about from osteopathic training, but what's really common is if you go up to probably, oh, seventy percent of the horses in the US. I'm not sure about Europe. I know in Australia the same. If you really look at the the way that the head and the bones of the head are aligned in their Periphery. And you look at the if you just put a t square in your mind between the bone, not the soft tissue of the two eye orbits, you'll find one eye will be down on most sources. And so that's a cranial torsion on that side. The lower eye part is is the Symmetrical dysfunctional side. And what that is is a whole cranial vault there, and it will put pressure on hypothalamus, pituitary, and pineal. And so the downstream effect of the endocrine just, um, expression out of that side, they're very different left and right, Front and back. You can you can predict what's gonna happen downstream. Whether you're gonna have a Cushing's horse or you're gonna have I mean, I used to get these mares about that time, uh, who they couldn't let their note down. They were made mares. And I go to them, and I look at their head, and their left Pituitary, their left cranial bones, excuse me, be extremely in dysfunction. And also I would do is work the head, and every time four hours later, I'd get a call. The milk's flowing. So I would reset pituitary prolactin and allow the body to flow. Um, so that I think was my dad Coming in. And I know so, um, and so they kinda went through that. So that was kind of Probably where he should have went earlier on in that life. If not that life, then x. Right? So, um, it's all part of a longer process. Interesting.

Ronnie: 15:09

Maybe that was his learning yeah, You still need now, so maybe that's part of

Tom: 15:14

it. Yeah. You know the thing that I learned the most from having close well, Hi. Family, friends, and then for me, it's animals in particular that have passed really close super Connected, evolved animals. The more we free ourselves up here, the more we free them up up there. I didn't realize until, really, Maybe, I don't know, ten years ago how how much interconnected flow there is between Who's ever working with us and our own process. It is way more than we think it is. We are certainly not an island by any sense of the need. We just couldn't function. You know? It's that interplay. It truly is.

Ronnie: 15:59

Yeah I'm a great believer. Obviously, it's my view in like you said, if you work with your own stuff it's a knock on effect to everybody else, living past, Present future, and where our focus goes to see, I have this little thing, and, um, I'm obviously, not you, I'm where I'm at at this present time. And I'm well aware that if you look at something and you focus, You draw energy and you add to it. So you can create it, but not just in yourself. You can create it beyond that. But it doesn't mean to say that what you're looking at hasn't got some relevance or learning I can't put it into words because it's quite Yeah. Yeah. It's quite deep. You touched on the mirror, but the mirror is just You explain what the mirror theory is to the listeners?

Tom: 16:54

It's an absolute Parallel correlate of what we're just talking about in that we're all in this together. And, Us humans have a ways to go on some things. And so we're in this whatever you wanna call it we forget. We come through that veil, And we have a diminished ability to to see, to feel, to act. But animals uh, we call them domesticated animals, and in that sense, they are they are Highly tuned to what our path issue is from a purpose standpoint. They're not looking at just getting their needs met unless they are closed off themselves. They are truly here to awaken us, all of them. And all of and horses are exquisite at it. And I've just been lucky enough to let them show me How they communicate that and how to test it, how to apply it, how to verify it, and how to help move through. So people, If you're connected to a horse and if you have absolutely no connection, probably a good horse can read anybody, and I have those where we'll get people that they can't figure out what's wrong with them, functional med doc, and They'll bring the person there, and the horse will say, yes. I'll read this person, but it's just for that moment. But if it's your horse, they hold deeply in their body, not just your little aches and pains or this little injury here. They hold that which is Significant, which is what the osteopaths call the area of greatest restriction, the place where the dominoes fall when that goes. And so those areas, They light up for me physically, and my job is to intuitively and rationally find out what they're talking about. But when I get in there, that's when I pick up the energy, when I look into it like you were talking about and see its energy, and then it starts showing me the path. Or very frequently, it is three years old. Three years old. What happened at three years old? The original insult that You lost your power, where you quit believing in yourself, where your emotions and your belief systems shut you down super common. And the horses see it like like, we see a picture on a wall, and they kinda look at me like, you guys are so slow. And I kinda go, yeah. Well, But help me come up to your level. Right, so they really do. And, why they hold our deepest stuff is just like disease, the body will hold Dysfunction and pain as a way of awakening you and calling attention to it, and they're about calling attention to it, moving through it into wholeness. And they're very clear on that. And there'll be times when I've will work on a horse that's really in a lot of pain and physical suffering, And I'll look at them and say, you know, this isn't even yours because it isn't. Now sometimes they have their own stuff, but And sometimes a human takes the horses. But by and large, I've seen horses where they're incredible physical pain, And quality of life is really in the dumps. And I'll look at him and say, You know, I'm not sure that your human's worthy of this. You might wanna separate from that, and in a week, you could be feeling beautiful and they look up and they get really excited because they get the sense of, uh, that would be so good. And then So I don't know what dialogue they're getting, but they're getting it from Equus. They come back in. They look at me. It says it's not negotiable. It's a sacred contract. It's not negotiable. So, um, it is what it is. So to me, bearing is not if, it's How much and what is the quality of it and what is it that which you need to let go to see to process.

Ronnie: 20:43

Wow yeah. So I totally agree with everything you just said, Because I feel it, and I see that myself. However, just because I see it and I know it, it doesn't mean to say with me and my horse, I have my own baggage, and it's a double edged sword sometimes. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because It's easy not to look at something and not to add to it, but you can just catch yourself. It's there. Your mind takes you there. And I say that your mind's not your friend, and your mind's not your enemy. It just is there. Yeah. Yeah the more I understand, the more they show me. God, the harder it is sometimes.

Tom: 21:26

It is, it is. One of the things that I have found, they taught me. This is truly it's a universal English language. I've seen it in all breeds, in all places, at all ages, including two day old folds. If they really want to get an issue across, they will use the body as a way in as a expression. What's wrong with the body will hold what's wrong with us, and they use the team points. They're not really just the acupoints of the the front hand. Partly you know, I used to think, well, they're just after A candy, a carrot, something like that. Right? And they could be, but what they'll do is they'll go to a specific finger. And so that leads to meridian, but really an organ. And within that, what does it really mean? So, Fourth fingers triple heater, and it almost always talks about an endocrine issue as the dominant issue in the human. Or large intestine, they'll go to this finger. lung will be thumb. Heart issues show up a lot a lot a lot, especially in the last few years so what I do is I see that, then I verify that they have a physical heart issue, then The way I work intuitively, the best is I go into the body, and I find out where the energy lives. Every dysfunction has a core place that it emanates spherically from, which thank God it's there because it's not like it's everywhere. It might be all over the heart, but in reality, you're gonna find it a Pacific center, and I go into that and I talk, and then it gives me the information. And usually on a person, it'll be They feel overwhelmed by the collective consciousness and the energies and all that is going on, and so they close their heart and that's exactly the opposite of a good immune system. The good immune system is to open, and the minute the person buys into that, that goes buys into this wrong word. Then the person embraces and acknowledges the authenticity of I need to be fully open like I was when I was a little kid. The heart opens and moves, and my job is to nudge it and clear that essence. And then the horse will look at me like, yep got it. And He or she will either redirect to the next one, but what they have done is they've taken me to the biggest one, whatever that is. So I've had them horses that were great to work on, and I'd show up maybe a year or two later because I usually get a lot out of a horse unless somebody's either had a real problem on a deep level of the horse. I don't usually see that horse for a long time so something else happens. And I'll get these horses where all of a sudden they won't let me touch them. And the minute I go to touch them, they take off. And you look at that and go, okay. That's odd at first. And then as soon as I start talking to the human, they bury their head into you. And those are always things that are absolutely critical timely like well, I don't know, quite a few colon cancers they're showing me, You name it they've shown me how to find malignant tumors like crazy and it's equals it shows me. They get the credit for the teaching, not me. And They do that all the time. They're that good.

Ronnie: 24:35

Wow I'm really enjoying listening to you, Tom. So for the benefit of somebody that's maybe new to this, when you go see a client, when you go see a horse, Just guide us through, as much as you want to, both sides of it. So what are you looking at? What are you feeling? And how do you approach this, especially if they're not that way inclined of thinking?

Tom: 25:00

That is a brilliant question, and it's an obvious one, but the obvious ones are the brilliant questions. Um, the first thing I would say that I do and I've had a lot of mentors and guides, direct people. In fact, one was from the UK that I worked with for years. Linda Merynics, she's a phenomenal channeler, and she's in the US. And, um, anyway, she would Channel things, and I'd go try and verify because I run the skeptic really hard. I still have that allopathic part, and Then I verify. So the first thing I do is I set the intention or the intentions running that I'm coming to make a Significant difference. If you're asking me to work on you, it's not like a little fluff playing around it's like let's go. Let's be willing to go to the depths. That's a huge change right there. The intention of what you're asking to do is huge. Now you can do that with no skill set it's the intention that is the biggest player here. You can have the world's greatest osteopathic hands With the wrong skill set and the right amount of arrogance, you're not gonna get anything done. So I do that, and therefore, permission has to be there. Sometimes I help set the ground. And then depending on where the person is, I'm always I'm working on the horse, but Unless the person is not there and not wanting to be there, that's unusual but it's The interplay. It's a triad going on the whole time. And so I'm I'm always aware of that person's energy And what their frequency is like and what the horse is trying to tell me, and then I'm really mainly trying to open the horse up physiologically, energetically. And as that happens, there was times, like it depends. If you have somebody who's really closed off to Any energetic stuff. I don't just blast in and do things, but yet, in other ways, I do. If the horse mirrors with me, I walk right up to the people anymore. I just did it last weekend, and I should go, let me see this part, this point on you or whatever. They may be the actual organ. It might be a pain reflex point, and I go in. There's Something about that with horse's energy, my energy running at the same time. One, we're both more, I'm more effective with those horses together than I am by myself. And the people seem to, kinda just get they get overwhelmed for a second, and Something inside of them that I touch their soul more, so they go, oh, yes. I remember this. And transitions them. It awakens them very quickly, and that's really the essence of what I do. I wouldn't do it if they were, Uh, standoffish about it if their energy system said no. I would find little things as the horse started Releasing and deeper stuff, and they asked me what I'm doing. I start telling them, and then I'll find a different way in. But, yeah, by and large anymore. People in the last certainly more than twenty years ago are way more open to, well, let me just see, let me just see. You know? So I do that with a horse, and then I first start physically on a horse, at the head Opening up and getting a sense of their frequency. Who are they? How much vitality do they have? How much spirit is able to go through their central nervous system right from the upper palate of the upper gums or an acupoint or the yin tang, the third eye. And then I'll do an assessment very lightly with cranial sacral to see where their central nervous system is blocked Because wherever a a slight organ dysfunction will will block the cranial rhythm. It'll block the The spine, the nerves, which I call the off ramps or the side streets. Uh, and so I get a sense of what kind of pattern Physically, left brain, this horse may have, and then I go right back into intuition. I go into the heart. And what I mean into the heart, I mean into the heart. Not hard physically. All of us have this ability To go into the body and engage tissue at depth, and then feel it just like you're there. It isn't if, it's just A skill that you need to reawaken and then to expand upon. So that's the main skill I teach. Without that, I don't care What other anatomical physiological skill set you have? You can't merge with tissue. You can't go into the depths. And, Whatever's going on out in the field of the horse has an eminence, and I tend to gravitate to where is it coming from. And then when I get in there, it talks in the Internet, and I ask it, how do you wanna release? What are you? You know? Are you of Obstruction in the blood vessel. Are you in nerve? Are you in organ? Are you in the limp? Are you you know, what is the cause of the issue physically, and what really is it? And if I get the frequency that it's an emotional issue hold, which are the strongest physical disease holds in the body. I will stop and have dialogue with the horse on what it is, and are you willing to see it, own it, and not Release it usually. Release is very different than letting go. Release is you kinda leave the building, if you will, If you own an office and you go away for a while and come back and release it and it's cleaned up maybe, your new carpet or whatever, that's okay, but I'm more into letting go is done and transmuted, and you and then you can move through it. So that's what I do, energetically, but I'm following where the biggest problems of the horses are, and I gravitate to the vascular heart system first, and I do that partly because I'm geared that way. But, The heart to me without a doubt and throughout all cultures is the eminence of the soul. And it's right in the middle of the heart, you know, equidistant left, right, top, bottom, front, back. And that goes way, way back from Egyptian mystic school, indigenous, druids, and and even in the, Quran and tree of life but my point is is the biggest insults that I see to the body are where the being has gone off purpose. And so I try to sense where that is in the heart and find out where it may be in the body. And then if there's a blood vessel that's not in play or it's in inflammation, it will dominate Tissue all the way around it. So I free up the the blood vessels wherever I go, and then I go deeper. The vassalers and everything, but to me, it's the soul It's the biggest player in all the disease or the discoherent, uh, gone off purpose, if you will, aspect of the soul.

Ronnie: 31:57

As he was talking about the heart, I'm not even gonna tell you what I was getting because it might sound, not to you, Really bizarre, but, um, yeah I'll have to tell you that bit afterwards, actually. I've written it down, so don't forget. Right. Okay. Sorry. So when I'm talking, sometimes I'll get communications coming through.

Tom: 32:19

I love it.

Ronnie: 32:21

Right. Okay. So right so they want me to say some of what I felt as you were talking about the heart. And, obviously, this is my interpretation you don't have to accept this, Tom. Um, but I have to say what comes through because it's coming through for a reason, and they're talking about the heart. As you were talking, the the arteries Mhmm. They'll show me the structure of the heart, but then as she was talking and you was talking about going inside, The energy felt very feminine. And then what's come later was the feminine energy is really important to the heart, chemistry okay. Both are, but for some reason, at this present time, and that's how it's coming now. At this present time, it's really important the feminine energy, and this is coming too strong. As you were talking, it was almost like I was trying to think of a movie, It's an old movie where they go into a spaceship, and they get injected into a human to try and clear part of his body, and I can't think what it's called.

Tom: 33:19

Possiden adventure something like that?

Ronnie: 33:22

No it's an old movie rochelle Welch was in it. Yes. I know the movie. Yeah. They miniaturize themselves, and Yes. You got it. Yeah. Yes that was a great As he was talking, the whole heart, you was inside, and I can see inside, and I can see the energy and the frequency. And I could see the pathways That was connecting, and it's like you had your hand. The energies I'm trying to describe this so it's more visual. The electrode pathways that come from the heart was going Beyond that you can ask me about that afterwards and see if anything else comes through there, but they wanted me to mention that. And, again They're saying she because she's presenting herself as a female energy. Yes. And this is a key To this moment in time this moments that we're going through, The female energy to do with the heart. So, obviously, there is masculine too, but it's the female. It's allowing to surrender, To let go, to take the guard off, and to be vulnerable. That's it. This is part of the female energy. I know that makes sense to you.

Tom: 34:39

Yeah. I directly teach that. It's the divine feminine. Yes. The energy of the heart vascular system that is what it is. And that is not to be confused with soft and submissive and if that's the exact opposite. It's the exact opposite. And to be in our time of Still masculine dominance is really rearing its head at the moment. A true balanced warrior, if you will, has equal divine feminine as he does male and vice versa. And so It is embracing that frequency is the only way you're gonna be able to go into the heart and to move vascular tissue. It wasn't till I did that was I effective On the three d level. I do a couple different exercises in in clinic where I take everybody and I have them make a ring. It's an aikido move. It's a martial art move where you are using physical, masculine, bravo energy to hold the index finger to the thumb, And then you come by with both hands, me being the instructor or somebody else and pull it apart. Well, anybody should be able to pull this apart because of the mechanical advantage and then you bring in the divine feminine and that which is pure intention and softness. No physical. If you try, it won't work. You must allow the divine feminine to flow, and it might help that you envision that as some sort of unbreakable Circle, you have to see it as an unbreakable circle and I don't care how strong you are, you're not gonna unbreak it. The only way you can break it is to confuse the person's attention and take them off of it by asking what their color is or whatever. So the other thing about that is, It is well known in allopathic circles that the heart as a pump of blood does not come close to having the power To pump that blood around the body, not even close. So there's great research right now and debate on that, And they think it's an electrical charge at the cellular level. Pollard's work on fourth phase of water that's probably true. But without a doubt, in my opinion, in my sense, in my knowing, it is this energy of soul that runs this and it is much like a divine feminine energy. When you hear these cliches about the mother picked the car up off the infant child that fell on it, and it was adrenaline that did it, No it's the energy of pure divine intent that did it and adrenaline just helped. The craniosacral system coming in from, the pineal, if you will, or it's a on a allopathic version, it is the pumping like a hide A hydraulic pump of the cerebral spinal fluid from the blood system down the spine, taking the waste products back up, And then back into the blood, that is a short version of the cranial system. The reality of it is you're not gonna feel it unless you're willing to feel spirit come in, kinda like kundalini straight line coming down and out the coccyx and back up. And that's what drives this entire system through the body because the bones don't have enough power. So would that be a Masculine energy? I don't think so but it's different than the heart's energy. So, this divine feminine is without a doubt yeah. I think the biggest Transition we have right now is society is being not just asked, it's being prompted to move into the heart, To get out of the lower frequencies of just survival, just getting by, just wanna control, be controlled, and just move into the heart where things just sort of balance out. And that transitional place in the body, it goes back to the body too, is the diaphragm. So the problems with diaphragms and people and horses are off the charts in terms of how many people have it and I think more so than they used to be, and I think that's what this is. I think it's it's a divisional aspect between the higher and lower self. And, Moving into the divine feminine, there's the barrier right there.

Ronnie: 38:52

So when you say diaphragm what symptoms, what would you see in humans and horses? What would that show you?

Tom: 38:58

On a physical level, you can write a book on just the physical. Okay. So it literally is a dividing aspect. Okay. So there's three hiatuses or holes, transitional holes in there. One of them is the vena cava. So all of the blood from the lower extremities and all the organs below the diaphragm have to go through that hiatus and it shunts it. So you're backing up and stagnating fluid below the diaphragm. The aorta tries to get through the diaphragm at the aorta hiatus, and that's on the left side. The vena cava is on the right, and it gets shunted and it puts back pressure on the heart. The even the cardiologist call that hypertrophic heart because it it can't relax and flow because the diaphragm's pushing back on it. And the third hole, essentially, there's three, like a divine triad, um, is the esophageal glaze, Which on humans is easy to come close to physically or directly, and it's right below your xiphoid where you get the wind knocked out of. Well, that's where the esophagus goes through to the stomach, and just so happens the the vagal nerve, the gastric vagal nerve is right on that side. So when the diaphragm constricts, it physically torsions that esophagus and the nerve, And that's the absolute number one cause of stomach ulcers and gastric reflux in people. Horses are there's so many horses with stomach ulcers. It's in every publication, in every conference, in every article you wanna see, And it's the ability it's a diaphragm that's doing it. And then to make matters worse, it's one of the Strongest core muscles below the lumbar spine. And you could probably go to most of your textbooks and anatomy books, and it won't show that of the diaphragm that extends underneath the spine, and yet it's there. So it causes an incredible dysfunction in a horse, For instance, lead changes, pulls the pelvis through into it, it it goes on and on and on. The diaphragm creates an incredible distortion, if you do not know how to address and clear all aspects of the diaphragm, which include organs, you're missing The core of the of the animal and its dysfunction physiologically, metabolically, movement, all of it. It will pull the head out as well. A lot of our head problems aren't traumas to the head, they're distortions in the gut and the diaphragm. Used to be about two thousand four, about twenty five percent of horses had a diaphragm spasm, And they don't tend to heal without intervention, which I find fascinating. Why is that? It's one of these places that will not heal without deeper dives into it. Now, from what I gather, it's probably ninety three percent or more have a diaphragm torsion and so why all of a sudden this? And, on a physical level, I would say it's neurotoxic feeds. It's pretty obvious what they are, but there's this path issue, and there's this human mirror issue as well, humans as well. So gut issues will be diaphragm issues if they stay there very long If a human realize how their, so I'm gonna try and split this back in my terms, And then you can you can give me yours. If a human understand what a thought does to their own physical body, energetically, physically, and the same thing to whoever they're interacting with, whether it's family, friends, animals, especially because that's where we have this love, usually unconditional love. We want to help them. We want to fix them. We want to love them so much. And what horses say to me is you know, you're suffocating me. Just look after yourself first because you can't do what you wanna do for me if you can't do that for yourself. And I say that with, compassion and understanding because I'm a human, and from my own horse and human relationship. It's the same for me, and it's so frustrating. Now I don't have your vocabulary. I don't have your skill set. Mine is limited. In fact, a few years ago, did a massage Of course. Because, to get insurance, you had to have A piece of paper to say that you did something and, my dear friend said to me, why don't you do an animal communication course and I said, why would I do that? I do that. Why would I do somebody else's communication course? Because I wouldn't be doing that. I'd be doing how my intuition is guiding me to communicate and I'm doing that for a what comes through me, What I pass on is, my learning, my understanding, and it's my pathway. so I don't want a piece of paper that says I do that because I wouldn't be promoting that. aNd then as time went by, I did a massage course, which I Absolutely loved it. And while I was in it, I loved it and I met some lovely people, amazing tutor. She's so funny. She's at Welsh. She's so funny. And afterwards, I wanted to do it, but because it wasn't really my passion Or maybe I'm just lazy. I don't know, to be honest, Tom. It didn't stick. I don't store knowledge. I don't have a photographic memory. And if I don't do something On a regular basis, it's not there and another reason why I did this is when I visited the client, I would often be talking to the client, and I'd be stroking the horse, and my hand would stop somewhere. And as I'm talking Yeah. I'm well aware that my hand is on. So I'd say to the client I love that. I'm just gonna go quiet just bear with me, and I'd explain what I'm doing. Like, my hand has its own Its own system, and it's working something. And they could see from the horse's response that something was going on. Now I'm not saying it's as as yours. But there was something going on and sometimes I think it's just a case of the horse wanted to connect through me to the human Even if I'm not touching the human, because the human would start crying and saying, I have no idea why I'm crying. And I'm saying that's fine because tears are good. That's fine, you're releasing something's coming through, and then the horse would go off and start to eat the hay or have a drink and just carry on doing what it's doing. When you're doing communication, you're talking, you're doing that, Sometimes I would get, and I do get, things that would come through and I'd be asking the questions, but I would want to know, In layman's terms, what that is so I can pass it on to the person. And because I don't Have all that knowledge. They would show me pictures. They would show me things I'd say, right on me, this is what the horse has shown me. There's a tightness There., This is spasm there. There's a twist there. So I would do it that way but I really wanted to have this memory where I could go. It's a sacral. It's that. It's the Fifth rib, but it never stuck like that with me. Um, so I decided to just surrender and let that go because maybe that's not how I meant yeah. Oh, totally. It could be and what I would say is that intuitive Seeing bigger patterns without knowing what they are is more important than knowing exactly where you could Chase them down it's always more important. The ability to go in and follow your way It's much more effective than following a cookbook and working from the inside out. Like, when we're doing clinics, I don't have large classes because of the energy involved unless I have a lot of TAs. But, I mean, a large class would be twelve people, and usually, I I want more no more than eight. And the reason why is we'll be going out to do a two hour session twice a day, And we're able to go out to do a session on a horse, and I have particular techniques, you know, ready to go on the Or that I've already demoed and so on and talked about on PowerPoint and everything, but each person I go around to, it's so fascinating. I meet their frequency and the way they interface and help them to embrace it and move through it rather than just know. And so they get much further along, much quicker when they bring their essence with them And don't try to, uh, there's no cloning of this work. There is no cloning. And so if you're guided to stay at a certain level, if you get called to say, well, I see this pattern in a horse, this torsion at the rib cage, and you wanna know More about what that is? Well, you could physically begin to take that apart with different techniques and skills. You can also just go into it and find out where it lives. Just go into it and ask it. What is this? You can do that as well. And from there, The lesson you probably do better with that, and that may indeed be the ultimate technique at the end, not all the other stuff. I mean, most of the veterinary students I have, as a rule, have the most trouble getting results because they question and they're in their left brain they can't feel and when when I put my hand on theirs and I go in to show them, take them in A ride down into, like, the middle of a spasm of a liver, and we go right to it and then I'll ask them, well, what's there, and what part of the lobe is this? And they'll look at me, and these are veterinarians, and they'll look at me like, I don't know and I look at them, I go, you left your left brain finally. Okay. Because they literally forget all their training. And so the key is the merging. It is the Intuitive energetic interface that's what it is. Your situation that I'm getting is you will go to a horse, And when you just decide you're just gonna shut everything out, And you will find its biggest area of restriction and if you talk to the person, your hand will just go there, Which is fascinating. And then I would say at this point, you have to decide what you wanna do at that point. Yes. Because you bring it out. You bring the energy to the surface. You bring the shadow to the surface.

Ronnie: 49:11

I love going, to clients and showing them similar to you, what happens when you're just present and there's no agenda and you're just Letting the horse guide you, and it's really lovely and sometimes when there's no talking, there is communication, but it's not talking. I love that and sometimes I'll say, I'm really sorry, but this might look boring no. No. It's fine. But you can be stood there for, like, forty minutes, And I can't tell him what I'm doing because it's just allowing. Perfect. It's allowing. I've got to backtrack a little because as you were talking, little voice said to me, tell Tom about your TMJ on your right and literally, I've got a few people talking to me, tell me about my TMJ and get him to explain.

Tom: 50:02

Yeah. See, now they're giving me a focal point, right, of physiological rather than what's going on Move your hand so I can see a little bit more. I'm looking at that energy. Okay. It's pushed your cranium, your OA. Now the TMJ is not The primary issue there.

Ronnie: 50:23

Can I just trace? Because what they show me is Yeah. Yeah. Down. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then I wanna go up it down again. So it's almost like I wanna do does that make sense to you?

Tom: 50:35

Yes. So what I'm seeing is Yeah. Very common dysfunction. Okay fine. I'm listening rather than seeing. Your sphenoid is shifted. Off is one of your things, but your OA, occipital adlanto joint right there is the biggie, and the TMJ is really synced to that. Unless you have teeth or other issues or nerve issues down here, yeah. That's that. And then what they're really showing me is the Right veil nerve on you. The ventral is occluded and that's causing problems on the whole right side of the body a little, and it kinda transfers over the left leg, I take it a little but I see it more of a cranial balancing And I think you had a pretty good old injury on the right shoulder, upper upper area. Is that true?

Ronnie: 51:21

Oh, do you know what? I fell off my horse a long time

Tom: 51:24

Yeah. And your lungs in spasm there. So I'll do it on me. This is your right side. So the if an organ goes into spasm. It will dominate these energies of organs are very powerful, and I mean energies, not just physiological. And they will dominate tissue around them like nobody's business. So the technical term for that is visceral somatic dominance. And when an organ goes in spasm, it will automatically be hooked to at least two to three muscles, and they will go in spasm with it and they will not be released no matter what massage and what kinds of lasers you use until you clear the organ's dysfunction. So I see an dorsal upper, right, lung lobe that's in spasm, this is not talking to you like, oh my god. I'm in pain. But yet, if you don't clear that, this will never fully release. The other one is there's a vein coming out of the heart, the biggest vein on the upper side. It's called subclavian and that's blocked, and then the juggler can't drain, so your whole right tranium is backing up and so that's kind of straightforward Downstream left brain protocol. However, boy, is that a big deal? And vagal nerve dysfunction is massive in terms of Consciousness and flow, and that's a whole major topic to discussion what the ventral vagal really is is Fascinating. K. And I'll just say something briefly. It emanates out of Medulla right here. And what's really interesting, it's super easy for anybody to pick it up, and they go, oh my god. Yeah. I feel that. So you can tell if it's working and if it isn't working and yours isn't working on that side because of the structure around it, but the ventral vagal, there's four Vagal nerves, two left, two right. The ventral vagal is the new one that's the big one in Consciousness circles and PTSD circles because it has so much impact on the way we view the world and react to it and stay in balance. What I find with it from a body working standpoint, let's use that, is the only structure I've ever seen that Can be blocked like all structures, but it cannot be contaminated. That is a massively profound Statement that I'm sure would be met with arrogance in most circles, but I've never seen it contaminated. Other things get weakened they get toxic. They get distorted. This one can be blocked, but it cannot be contaminated, and it goes everywhere. It's like a divine regulator. So it's a big deal to get that nerve working and make sure it gets down into the rest of the body, oh, it's huge.

Ronnie: 54:11

Wow. Can you help me.

Tom: 54:13

Yeah. In your area, there has to be a good cranial person. Craniosacral person at least. And it is part of osteo, but people kinda Focus in on that, and that is all about getting that to open. Whether or not they know how to get the vagal nerve, that would be A good skilled person would now, but just getting the OA to open. And one of the things you can do is ask for guidance and You can buy something for it, but you can get, like, two, like, tennis balls. Put them at the end of an old sock and tie them off. And you put your occipital protuberances, right, your head on it and just lay back and allow your brain stem, which comes in through to relax and a lot of times, be surprised how much you can do with that.

Ronnie: 54:57

I think I've heard that before from Yeah.

Tom: 54:59

Well, you know, in a lot of even human massage classes, they will Have the client lay on their back, and they'll come up underneath the head like this and lift, and people often will go out they'll just you know, go into dream state, and that's the technique, that's the beginning of that technique of opening up this limbic system through the brain stem. You know, it's funny uh, very astute, aware, woo woo neuro people that I know. I mean, talking about neurosurgeons even, k, that I Have listened to our our colleagues. I'll ask them, like, where's the biggest most important part that you work on on the brain and I keep thinking they're gonna say prefrontal cortex Sorry. You know, hypothalamus. And they say, no the expensive real estate in the brains is the brain stem. It's the limbic it's the simpler One, because it's the one that's doing all the distortion. It's kinda fascinating. So we can't be divine creatures walking the earth with a dysfunctional limbic system. Doesn't work that way. And most of us have some degree of it. You know we really do. Interesting. So you get some eye distortions from this as well? Yeah. No. But I mean intermittently.

Ronnie: 56:08

One is is weaker than the other. Yes.

Tom: 56:10

A good training will work up through and in there and flowing down that would be your basic clearing there. Now why it's there is totally different issue. You know? And and if we address that, it might just go on its own without any technique. You know?

Ronnie: 56:24

Yeah. We might be a few more hours, Tom,

Tom: 56:26

That inevitably is what they were asking. So I would just lead people to don't forget that these dysfunctions that are bugging you for the longest time, That are harder to clear no matter what you do are, in fact, an area of path that you need to look at. Mhmm. And that's why we need people Like you that are skill intuitives that maybe can illuminate that.

Ronnie: 56:49

I just love how the conversation's gone and this is why I talk about intuition in in your guidance, to trust it and to not be afraid to say it because unless you're You never do it with intention to hurt or to make somebody feel small, you always do it with the right intentions. And If it's not taken or the other person can't acknowledge it, that's fine. Because if you couldn't have acknowledged that, we'd have moved on but I trust it enough now to say, As I mentioned about the heart, the feminine heart, that if it's coming through, it's meant to be said, and this is why I'm here. I don't ask the bigger picture. As you said about when you're touching the horse, you don't have to ask all the questions. I want to know. Just trust and I just trust that it's mentioned for a reason. So what you were saying to me is also regarding a horse too, so I was well aware that that's why there was giving me that information too. Um, so that's very yeah. That's interesting. That's been helpful.

Tom: 57:49

I love how you say that you feel it coming through, Like the divine heart, so therefore, it has to be clear and it should be said.

Ronnie: 57:58

So it's like a frequency. There's frequencies, billions of them all over, and they're always Talking, but we don't hear them because otherwise we'd go a bit insane because you know that's what protection is. Wanna mean protection? I don't mean there's bad things. It's just like, like microwave. Oh, yeah and when you Just acknowledge that you've sent something or you hear something, that's the first like, tuning in and then if I get messages, I might just get a feeling I've got a message I know who it's for because the person's popped in or the horse has popped in and it's not always horse related, but That's the doorway in and often I'm in my car because I'm not focused on too many things. I'm driving, And then it's like, okay she's present. Let's get through now and I get a feeling or a word, and I pull over, and I'm saying the word. I'm feeling the feeling, and then I go, okay and I start to record or to type the message, and then the rest of the information comes through. The planet is one aspect. We, as humans, are ants a on a planet, And then the planet is part of the universe, and that universe is part of something else and something else and something else. We could be searching out there thinking, what is it? Where is it? You know, where are we heading to? What's that in space? Look what's in here because that is part of it, and you're gonna understand more and gain more from that than looking I'm wishing to be on a star because the star is part of you. And it sounds very out there, But it's not because everything's connected. Otherwise, I won't be able to listen to a communication. I won't be able to link in as you were talking to what was coming through. There's connections all the time, and they go to which is the easiest route to get to, the same as lightning. It will find the easiest, quickest route to get to where it needs to go.

Tom: 59:55

It's efficient. Yes. The universe is efficient and I I live for the passionate moments when I get a taste of it over and over When you can get a sense of your true power, and it's so far vast beyond what we think it is and, I think we are our own star as well, and that that's coming out of the heart. And, I really think horses are there to say, yes. Yes. Wake up you know, become yourself trust your Your energy inside even more than you see on the outside. Mhmm. And things happen on the outside much better. The inner manifestation exists on the outside more. So yeah and horses know this. Not all. They can be Closed down pretty good in our culture, especially with neurotoxic feeds and other things. But by and large, they will awaken, and It is just common knowledge to them, and they work on a collective consciousness consciously All the time. I mean, all the time. Yeah. A lot of times for me to help a horse, I have to Ask them to call in their ancestors and or if it was a young foal or a horse that when they were young was suddenly taken from mother, that is a huge dysfunction as it would be for human. And I ask them to call in the mother and have her alive or not, and have her finish her education and that is a long process on a human, on a horse, it's within seconds you see them energetically looking up in a physical realm, seeing it, acknowledge it, and then Allowing the download. And people that have never seen that authentically know that that indeed just happened and Things change right on the spot shifts occur instantly on a horse physically from that. Just answer. There's my left brain skeptic. See? Now that I did that and it always has to have that traction with me. I'm still running that skeptic, and it it's over and over that way. And so the other one that really messes with people is when you've had experiences either sudden or numerous ones over time of disdain where parts of your soul are outside the heart. They're out there. So that's soul retrieval. And on a horse that is very I don't wanna say simple, but, you know, it's pretty straightforward on how to do that with the right intention, and it has a true physical moment Where that divine feminine energy embraces the masculine, and it has a huge thud back into the heart, and the entire horse will shudder with it. And that's when, you know, it's reinvigorated, rein integrated as well. So yeah it's fascinating. I think we just work at different perspectives on the same thing. You know?

Ronnie: 1:02:55

It's Fascinating talking to you, and so strange because, obviously, you don't know me. I don't know you really. I mean, I heard you on Warwick, and I thought, oh, What a lovely interview, and it was it was so warm and then it was through one of my listeners that they mentioned to you, and I said, oh, perhaps I'll ask Tom if you'd like to come on. And, of course, she said yes, which is like, oh my goodness, I was so pleased. Can I share a little story, it is a little story. Yeah. So Quite a few years ago, I went to see a lady, and she practiced shamanic and soul retrieval, but I didn't go for that and often people talk about Native Americans and their spirit guides are Native American, and it's the in thing and that's not saying anything against that, but I sort of avoided that side anyway. And She did a drumming, and was doing something else. And she says, how old are you? And she started doing the drumming, and I could my body going, and instantly, there was a seven year old in this cave. It's funny because I was gonna tell you another story, but my intuitionist Wanted me to share this story Interesting. In literally seconds, so that's interesting. Uh-huh and I was in this cave, and as I'm saying that, I can feel my heart Tightening. And she was in this cave, and she was curled up and the lady says, what do you see? And I said, oh, I see her. She's curled up inside of this cave. It's a stone cave, there's nothing there. It's just this cave. And she says, so go up to her and speak to her. Say her name. So in my mind, I walked up to her and said, hello, And she wouldn't turn around. And then she said to me, what is she doing? I said she won't look at me. So she says, speak to her gently and just reassure her that,, that everything's okay. And if she wants she can come with you Uh, so I went back to the child, and I said to her, I want him to cry, by the way, so there's still residue there. So I said to the child, give me your hand, and I will guide you. I will take you, and you will be okay and there was more, but she turned around, and she came and she hugged me. Now that was me hugging me, it's a child hugging me. Sure. And it wasn't like a, wow. This is amazing. I was almost observing it, seeing it and feeling it. When I came back, she said to me, they call it soul She mentioned. Yes. Uh, but she says you've retrieved essence of you that's been trapped in your cells and I said, okay. She says, but do not underestimate the power of what you've just done, so I went away, and I thought, Well I saw it, but, um, that night, I had these amazing dreams, and it was Can you remember when you used to get these black card and you scratch drawings, and it'd be white underneath? It'd be like wax. Yeah. And it was almost like a flick book, And there was all these white drawings of animals, all kinds of animals, horses, dogs, cats, tigers, elephants, Animals, as I flick, there was all these animals, and it was almost like it was bombarding me, this vision. It was very, very sharp. And I woke up, and I had to write it down and I've got it somewhere, and it's a long journal of this dream and about the the eagle and the and the birds. Now I don't know why I've shared that story because that's not the one I was initially going to share, so that's interesting. But the next part of the story with the same lady was, I wanted to know why I couldn't help and here we go again, motion. Why Why can I help other people in their horses? But when it comes to mind, it's so much harder. And she showed me, A vision. And she's, what I see is you many years ago, and I was a male Riding bareback on a horse, stood on the horse's back, and there was lots of white horses, and it was in a camp with teepees. And, she said, you are a young male, and you are riding these horses. There's no fear. You're on the back, and these horses will do anything for you. And I think I was important in the community Because she said everybody is watching you, and you is playing around, and your father kept saying to you, do not disrespect the horse. And I was saying, I'm fine, they'll be fine. They'll be safe. And what happened was through my stupidity, I was became injured. And I vow to come back and put right what I did there by helping other horses.

Tom: 1:07:37

Interesting.

Ronnie: 1:07:37

And I can't prove that and it wasn't like I was looking for that story to immortalize what I do, but that was the story that was presented to me. But as she said that, oh my god this emotion came out And I just cried but it was painful cry, and I thought I can feel that deep to my core. So even if that's not actual factual, she's engaged in an energy that's been stagnant and held in my body, my physical.

Tom: 1:08:03

Yeah. That's a deeper journey than for a sold retrieval. You know what I mean and did you have any sense of in what way the horse was injured?

Ronnie: 1:08:12

I think the horse died. Yeah I can see it now. The horse is on his side, and I was so sorry, and I made a promise to the horse yeah, I made a promise to the horse's energy that I will respect the horse, and I will give back what I, What I did. Yeah. And, actually horses were important because they Needed the host to survive to do what they need to do. So it wasn't just about fooling around. What happened is I injured a part of their family, which could not fulfill its destiny.

Tom: 1:08:45

My sense my sense is is that in that experience, The the horse went down, and to, to save you and not land on you, it broke its neck. Okay and I think probably later, if you go into your jaw, your right head, and see what that Feels like you may find the unwinding there full Yeah. In that experience. So there's a deeper I mean, we're going way back and stuff than if you were to go to the young child in the cave and bring it into three d terms a little more. Try to find the general age of her at the time. What was the primary cause in this lifetime When you really had a major energetic hit where you closed off and Maybe you don't need to know everything about it, but the essence of it so that that energy can mobilize and transmute back to beauty that is profound, it may take everything with it. So I see that always in the number one story that comes up, and I'm being guided all the time on people. It happened when you were three or seven. For whatever reason, those two Or sometimes fourteen. I don't know why those numbers, but if you go back to those times, many people can remember when they were told, don't be talking about grandpa he's passed. You know? Everybody still got that in their DNA that we get burned at the stake if we have a child that can see. Right? And so, that often is severe to a child's ability to be themselves, and I would imagine that you were a prime candidate for that. Regardless, our parents or even somewhat open would probably shut us off back then.

Ronnie: 1:10:33

I don't remember what it is, but my grandparents were very You weren't allowed to play outside on a Sunday and at the time, I think we were living there for some reason my parents had to move in with Grandparents. And, so that feels like that sort of time but I can't remember but I think I've I've been told that I did, but I can't remember physically.

Tom: 1:10:56

It does have your right jaw written all over it. Yeah.

Ronnie: 1:11:00

Who knew that this interview is gonna be a diagnosis contest?

Tom: 1:11:05

In their life. So, you know, we do all the high end physio you can do in cranial. It probably come back. It will help, certainly, make clear a ton of it. But in your case, you don't get to get let off And just take an aspirin and everything's fine. Right? Unfortunately, that's the way we are you gotta go into the to the depth and I'm pretty sure the depth is yeah. They're telling me it's not pretty sure. That's the depth. Yeah. Yeah. And it also represents your ability to, right jaw will talk to emotional and the right job will go into dysfunction with Severe emotional hold that you don't wanna deal with, and it will physically create a weakness in your right scapula, your right ilium, and your, left glute constantly. That's a known applied kinesiology pattern and the left jaw does it the opposite way and you could show that all day long on people. But You think about what the right jaw speaking your truth to others means. See? Kinda like that. Yeah. Which you do, But you're right anyway, it's right there. That's sort of the thing that you play with and then you go verify, like, on a person or a horse and it Has, you know, efficacy, and you see the results. Without results, I gotta see it grow corn. You know?

Ronnie: 1:12:25

Yes so yeah, that's been helpful. Definitely.

Tom: 1:12:29

Yeah. It's fascinating.

Ronnie: 1:12:30

This has been a really good conversation, Tom. Yes, sir. If there's something that you could say to anybody listening that's wanting to understand the horses a bit more and to start somewhere. What advice would you give them? Obviously, you've got your website and your page. Well, if they just wanna go off, use your intuition. Tell them What you do? It

Tom: 1:12:53

it would be more broad in that the first thing I would do is encourage them to Get quiet and see if you have a memory you know, a memory where you were Really touching who you are, and everything was so exciting and relaxed and yet vibrant and invulnerable, all of those things. Spirit doesn't it doesn't want gruffness and machinist, but it wants certainty, and it is powerful. And, We need to get rid of our belief that we aren't, and that's a major dysfunction. So if you can touch the essence of who you are, The essence of who you'll be when you leave your physical body, that's your frequency. That's your soul. That's your light body. If you can just barely touch it And embrace it and allow that energy to run many things shift. Your ability To interact with the horses will shift automatically, then begin to try to do that with your horse or with a horse. I connected willing horse is key in the beginning, and you can do it, and I'm sure you have everybody has a lot of ways how they Physically interact with the horse that way. At some point, put your right hand on the heart. They'll bind the elbow where the heart is closest to your right, though you can get to it closest, and begin not physically, Not the masculine, but the divine feminine. Begin to use your intention and use the energy going through your hand, your heart energy through your hand, In through the skin, through the rib cage, through that lining, through the pericardium, into the horse, and therein you will find, Uh, if you're able to read it, you will just you will just begin to take a walk into the center of who they are. If you have a horse that won't let you in there, then you have other work to do and or they do. It could be both. But I would say that is the essence of the equals there. It's in there. It's who they are. And if you suddenly feel, and many of you will suddenly, if you stay there, the heart will go into a spasm a little bit. And what I would say then is then bring the masculine in and put physical pressure there, and you'll feel The heart nudge into position and that happens on a daily basis. It literally will move an inch, sometimes half inch, sometimes two inches back into balance. And lots of things changed at that point. Good acupressure is still a very phenomenal Modality to touch deeper, but what I would say is, traditional Chinese medicine will have you Work the acupoint as a superficial structure, which it is, but in reality, it's a web like connective thing. So you can work that tissue and feel it relax and come into a dance, a motility. Every structure has this dance, but what I would say is then Quit doubting yourself and send the energy in and just allow it to take wherever it needs to go, and you'll find that you can Go way into the structure and affect things on a deeper heartfelt basis and to me, this is just who we are, Who we've forgotten to be. The most doubtful people often are the most deep three or four days later in a clinic, And it's a massive transformation in who they are and I would just say explore the depths from from the inside out. And Equiz has a ton to tell you. And then just trust what comes in. Like, I'm sure you've said and I've heard you say on podcast, it isn't if the intuition is working. It's really it's just can you tune to it? Can you Allow it to come in, and pretty soon, you'll pick up the frequency and go, uh, that's not my thought. That's not my inclination. That's not me wanting to be. That's really coming in, and then you can go verify.

Ronnie: 1:17:00

That's lovely. Thank you so much, Tom it's been an pleasure chatting with you, and I could chat for hours and I've got lots of things that I'd like to ask you, I would love if you'd like to. I'd love to have you back again. That would be really, really nice at your lesure and your time. I would love to. Yeah. I would love to. Thank you so much. So if you'd like to say bye to the listeners Take care. Bye bye. Brilliant. What an amazing, lovely guy. It never ceases to amaze me and the conversation went to its own route, which it does and you know me. the people that listen to my podcast know That's how I work. You know there's no real guidelines. It goes where it wants to go. This is a really good conversation that I think people would be interested in. If you want to get in touch with Tom or myself, please do so. Thank you for those of you that did