Interview with Tom Mayes - Integrated Equine Therapies (Part 2)

Interview with Tom Mayes - Integrated Equine Therapies (Part 2)
I'm  so delighted to have another chance to have an in depth conversation with Tom and after our last session, it was obvious from some of the comments, that the listeners enjoyed that part too.

There will be a brief introduction into his regular work with horse but we will also delve deeper into other areas that his work with horses has highlighted and brought forward.

So sit back, relax and I hope you enjoy this second session with Tom, to understand a little more about his passion, his work and the love he has for horses.

Tom Mayes.
Tom is Clinician, Educator and owner of Integrated Equine Therapies.
Integrated Equine Therapies is a highly effective approach that addresses the core causes of lameness, metabolic and emotional dysfunction.
He integrates cutting edge proven modalities to resolve acute and chronic issues at their deepest level thereby restoring normal function.

Tom is formally trained in Osteopathy, Applied Kinesiology,  CranioSacral, Acupressure TCM, Myofascial Release and Reiki.
He has studied with world-class professionals in proven ancient therapies and modern cutting-edge modalities.

Tom Mayes
Integrated Equine Therapies(530) 417-1694
tom@integratedequinetherapies.com
https://www.TomMayes.net
https://www.facebook.com/TomMayesIET

Video version (alongside applicable podcasts) can be viewed on facebook and YouTube.
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https://www.youtube.com/@equinevoicesuk
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Contact Ronnie.
mailto:equinevoicesronnie@gmail.com

Transcript

Ronnie: 0:11

Hello and welcome to Equine Voices podcast. My name is Ronnie and I'm so, so excited to be having a lovely Tom Mays back again. This is our second interview together and the reason that we've had another interview so soon after the last one is because of the feedback and the comments from the listeners and the people that were watching afterwards, after the live finished. So without further ado, I'm going to bring Tom in. He can do a short introduction and then we're going to go straight into the conversation. If you want to ask any questions, please do so in the comments. And then we'll go into the questions as they come up or when it feels relevant to answer those particular questions, but we will get through them, so don't worry about that. Hi Tom.

Tom: 0:57

Hey Ronnie. Thanks for having me on again.

Ronnie: 0:59

You are so welcome would you like to do a little introduction for the people that may not know who you are and then we'll go straight into the conversation.

Tom: 1:08

Sure, I'll do a brief one. My company is called integrated equine therapies, but really on the outside, what it looks like is I do more advanced body work, mostly osteopathic cranial sacral, medical intuition, and lots of applied kinesiology, kind of an integrated approach that has evolved over, oh gosh, now three decades, actually probably since I hit the ground, but, my approach is one on a physical level. I'm looking at restoring vitality in ways that took me way away from the allopathic model, and yet I still embrace some of the allopathic, perspectives as necessary and want to integrate that, would love to integrate that in a research teaching situation, but basically. To be effective on the physical body on a horse, and we can talk a lot about the common physicalities in horses, how they mirror human dysfunction and the whole health crisis that we're in because most of us in the Western world don't have health care. We have sick care anymore. But anyway it is to really fix the physical body. Inevitably, you come to a much maturation where you Looking at what is the deeper cause, and that deeper cause is always related to where the being, human, horse, dog, cat, went off purpose. They went off being, and the body holds disease in predictable ways, and To mobilize that, to get that to move, is the biggest physical releases I've ever had. So that consistently is woven through all the classes I teach, and consistently is the biggest results if you're just looking at the physical performance world or whatever. Lameness. Restoration world, which is a great place because if you don't feel good physically, you can forget the rest, right? Anyway, that's mainly what I do. I guess real quick in modality wise I don't I look at a horse in the beginning of a session before I even get there And I want to address the horse from the higher self standpoint. I want to bypass a lot of their ingrained psychological emotional Personality, Motivations so that I can get to the true essence of horse. And when you do that with the equals, they, and you just requests by and large, they absolutely shift on the dime. Whereas humans, we take a while to even grasp that concept or will resist it. And so you're dealing with a lot more variables and layers. Horses with the right intention will shift automatically, at least while you're in their presence. And the outcomes and the assessment and the treatments are massively different. And along that line over the years, very kind of unconsciously, reluctantly a little bit, I've adopted three main, yeah, I guess I'd call them modalities or not modalities really, but I've aligned my work and my understanding with what I call the sacred trilogy, and it is in all. Organized religion and old indigenous philosophies. And that is kind of the Christians would call it father, son, Holy ghosts the mystic school and the Egyptians call it the soul spirit life force. And I work with that because to me, those are the driving energies of the physical body. And. They exhibit vascular heart, soul work, which to me the osteopaths say they call it the rule of the art. What they mean is most dysfunctions will be dominated by a blood vessel that's in dysfunction. Anywhere in the body. So I work a ton with vascular work and inevitably early in a session will go into the heart itself and reawaken and realign and get its dance back moving with the body. And that's pretty easy to teach and to do a cranial sacral. If you know about that modality, it's fairly extensive in Europe and the United States were originated. Is the central nervous system and the flow of cerebral spinal fluid from the, from the cranial bones down through the body into the sacrum and then out that, that modality and call it the nervous system. It is driven by energies. We can't quantify and those energies to me or spirit coming in. It's basically aligned with the Kundalini and you can assess. on a physical level, anything down into the tiniest abscesses or micro lesions in a, in a suspensory ligament with cranial sacral as well. And the third one alluded me for years and years. And the life force aspect, cause each of these core. Energies that run, I believe our spiritual light body to our physical light body the sacred trilogy. Each one has a focal point and a system point. So heart, soul, vascular, cranial, sacral, spirit, central nervous system. And the life force to me was who you are in this body in this lifetime and how you move and how you, how you express yourself in form. And that to me turned out to be fascia. The fascial system with limp kind of woven in and the center of that I should back up the center of spirit is the pineal gland through the cranial sacral system. The mystic school the Egyptians talk about where the heart emanates your own higher self is between the left and right ventricles of the heart and the center of the fascial system is what the Chinese call the lower dantian the Japanese the one point or the hara and that is right below the SI joint. On a horse, if you put your hand right over the SI joint, it's about two or three inches down in that spinal cord, somewhere in there. And it's an eminence. And what I found with it is the entire fascial train system works like a DNA spiral through the body. And you can pick that dance up anywhere. And when you do, you have leverage. If you want to call it to engage and move fashion much more efficiently and to be able to address what's going on with the life. Force of this horse in this case in a much more dramatic way, but anyway, it's always about going into the essence of why we are in disease.

Ronnie: 7:55

Thank you very much and explaining that. And I know we talked about this on the last interview. So if anybody's interested, there is another interview that we did in December. And you can watch that one too, because this sort of follows on from there. And I know we talked to about the heart consciousness because that came through talking about the feminine energy, how important it is very much so now, but also. The masculine energy. So, okay. So what I'm just getting now is last time we spoke about the feminine energy saying that it's important because it's not a weak energy, it's a strong energy. And then the masculine energy is just come through. And what they're saying is the balance isn't always level. It will be. Like the tipping scales, because as we do that, each essence of that frequency has an impact on the physical body and the organs and everything else that flows through that does that make sense to you?

Tom: 9:00

Yeah. If you can envision a figure eight and at neutral in, just utter, just beingness with no intrusion from the outside or inside, the masculine, feminine and the masculine male are in absolute levelness. But depends on how we need to engage appropriately with the world, which one steps forward and becomes, I see it as it becomes dominant and the other one is there. So a great example of that is our hands. Can the thing about real traditional osteopathy is an example. It's certainly not the only modality that utilizes. Is going in with our hands at all, but it is the most demonstrative and that I can find. And what I mean by that is our hands can go into the body with our intention. It's all about your intention and a tension, always the quality of it. It's rate, it's flow, do you align with the frequency of the horse, and so on, and it's an innate skill. And why am I bringing that up? Because going into deep tissues allows me, or other people, access to tissue dysfunction, places of deep emotional cysts, and so on, that you can't really get to otherwise. The only other way to do that is, is to try to push on the skin to push on a muscles to get through the plural lining. If we're going into the long and that's extremely male inappropriate to aggressive, going to cause restriction and the defensiveness in the horse energy. On the other hand, Going back to this balance of male and feminine, it's this divine female energy that allows us to go in in this case with our hands deep, deep down to a dysfunction and engage it, embrace it, see it, feel it just like you were there. If you opened it up and you went there and with precision and then that evokes a healing, a, the body itself manifests. It's really not us doing all of it as a healer on the outside. We engage it and we activate it. We kind of give it in some cases, no choice, but to move into balance. That's the divine feminine. And it's very powerful. And, can do almost anything. And then as the body responds, you would think it would as sometimes it will dissipate or unwind. And most people, especially my female students, will want it to just dissolve and transmute or go away and think that was the essence. And the reality is in general, especially these deep seated dysfunctions in us, they do the opposite. They come to crescendo, they get more focalized and they get more intense. And in a sense, at first you think you're making it worse, and the reality is, you just embrace it with divine feminine energy, and as it comes into total crescendo, there's an automatic switch to be effective to the divine male, and the divine male says, I have you, and I see your essence, and it's time for you to be transmuted to beauty, and to leave the hold of this body, and at that point, there is a divine transformation. Thanks. Female, I mean a male impulse nudge that's necessary and you literally feel the 3D body tissues flutter in your hand. I mean, this is a 100 times a session on a horse type of thing and it's reset and then you go right back to the divine feminine. And so there is an example of the male intensity should be less time in our time chronology, but very intense at the right moment. And then balance with what the divine female energy has awakened.

Ronnie: 12:59

Yeah. So both parts are important. It's not one or the other. Obviously you need both parts of it. Mm-Hmm. I know on the last chapter together you mentioned that you had to embrace more of the feminine side. And so you brought that more into the fold.

Tom: 13:15

Yeah, I mean really this concept is so Central and so important to healing it both ourselves and to each other and to other species and that because it really asks the question, well, what, what is disease and what is dysfunction? And there's layers of that. And there's a part of me, you know, comes from the old school and, and the martial stuff and all that where. Oh, if I see a tissue dysfunction, I'm going to go up to it and I'm just going to find out which way it needs moving. I'm just going to blast it out of there. Well, yeah, you can get away with that for a while, but there's a lot of energy, too much mail being used and in the wrong, it's not balanced and it's not as efficient. So after a while, the most macho people out there become soft to be better at their physical. intensity. And what you'll find is that you have to embrace a really dysfunctional situation in a horse's body. You actually dialogue with it and you dialogue with the horse. And first thing you have to ask the horse is, do you want this? Do you want to keep this? If it's true shadow, the horse will look at you and go, Oh my God, no, take, take care of it for me. Take care of it for me. Get rid of it. If it's really deep and really intense, especially an emotional memory. Traumatic experience or old grief, you need to evoke it with divine feminine and awaken it fully and usually what will happen is it will be too restricted to get with male energy, strong, intense, whatever kind of manipulation you want to do, direct technique, whatever, and at that egoist. Because the universe is set up such is that here it is and you'll see horses go, Oh my God, you got this up and I know it's tied to all this pain and this emotion and it's been here forever and take care of it for me. I'm all for it. Go ahead. Go ahead. And you look at him and go. That's not how it works. I'll I do it if it went. You must now I'm going to illuminate it for you and you need to fully go into it with no fear and embrace all of it and then understand the lesson and at that that moment. That they do that, which in a horse is very quick. At least it is for me and what I kind of ask and bring to the table when I go to, then the tissue starts unwinding and it takes very little, if any, male intense direct technique to get that. And those are the most profound healings of, of all, of all. I mean, that's really the, the central place of clearing the deepest dysfunctions in our physical body. And I run the skeptic hard and boy, does it sure prove out over the years.

Ronnie: 16:00

So you're highlighting, you're facilitating and you're enabling and helping where needed, but it's their choice, it's their own flow that shifts that at the end, isn't it? Is that what you're saying?

Tom: 16:10

Yes. And you have to align with that and yes. And if you have a horse that is not sure and not willing that they want to heal, or for some reason doesn't want to heal those outcomes are totally different. Those sessions have completely different flow energy and the whole point of from the first day of first moment of a session to the first day of the first class to the last day of the last class, it's always about merging and engaging on an equanimous basis with. With the horse and there's techniques to enhance that. A lot of'em are right on the cranium. A lot of'em are old horse techniques, but it's all about asking them to be fully. involved and moving and teaming with, with the healer, healer, the body worker, whatever you call it in their own session. And the best sessions I've ever had are sessions where I've kind of awakened things and then proven that I can open up a bunch of tissues and start getting energy flowing again and so on. And then the horse will give me a certain, I can feel it now in the air first and then it'll always have a, I vector with it and then they asked me to do something on them. And, and a lot of times it's something that procedurally is going to be about 20 minutes down the road because there's too many blocks upstream, if that makes sense. And I always negotiate, I will be there in 20 minutes or whatever it is, but the best sessions are, okay, your turn, my turn. And the best outcomes are that way. And this is an innate thing in horses. All you have to do is. Awaken them. And in us, we have to go deeper to awaken that because we've had so much kind of pushed aside. We forgot who we are. But once you're in it, you go, Oh, yeah, I know this place, you know? Yeah. But I think that that's natural law, Ronnie, what you're talking about in terms of, it's really the client. whatever species that must be responsible for the healing and the healer is the facilitator.

Ronnie: 18:14

Yes, absolutely and that's the same in any species humans too. As you were talking I had a few horses, but one of them I know and they said that sometimes we give a little because it seems, let me just rephrase it. Sorry. Sometimes we give what's expected or wanted just to see how it feels, how it is, but also cause we're not quite ready. And they're talking in professional. So if somebody comes along to do some work, they will seem to give what's needed, but they're not quite ready. It's almost like. We'll give you that because then you might just leave us alone because we're not ready sometimes we need the human just to step back And reevaluate and sense their energy before they come back in, because there is a gentleness and then as they see something change and there's this, okay, and it's almost like they want to push past that and what horses are saying are that sometimes we need you to step back. Okay, but what they're also saying is in the world that you are in, it is not always possible. We understand this, but this is what we're asking that you step back and you listen. And that's all that's needed at that time.

Tom: 19:42

Yeah, we get caught up in I got these people think I'm just gonna clear this horse And I've got an hour or an hour and ten minutes maybe and it's the human expectation that gets in the way of the actual Reality of the natural flow and what's important often? There are horses like that now. Could you imagine it? Well, we can imagine if you're a horse and you have a certain person that has a very crude Approach and truly believes that animals are an equus is just sort of a, oh, they're kind of cute and fun and they have utility, but they're pretty, they're pretty stupid. They're not, their frequency is pretty low. They have very little value. That's very pervasive. And if you're going to get a different result from a very weakened horse with that kind of practitioner's energy, as you are with somebody that knows nothing. About moving the body, but has an incredible willingness and, and to me and, and presentation that person, I would bet you would get better results if they attempt to do anything with the horse because of the frequency match because of the in a awakened horse, there are horses that have been closed off like people and they require a very delicate approach in their body and back out. And then asking, do you want to go deeper? Are you willing to go deeper? And it's not appropriate to just go blast into their issue because you can see it. It's appropriate to chip away at the outside of their defenses to see that if they really want to be immune and invulnerable, the best thing they can do as a horse, just like us, is to fully open and go, okay, I'm in. And it's not allowing, it's being so energized that that is your immunity, that is your invulnerability and yeah, horses are masters, as a general rule, at teaching us how to interface with the world and ourselves. They really are. They're great mirrors for us and our dysfunction. Because we first have to embrace ourself before we do anything else. But your, but your, your download is talking. I think that often we need to get out of our expectations and look deeper at the reality of the energy that's going on within a session.

Ronnie: 22:10

Absolutely. So what happens with the communication is quite often if you explain something to your client and you say, this is what the horse is saying or wants to relay to you and, they're opening themselves up and they're being vulnerable and you say, okay, If you could listen to your horse rather than the external. If you've got somebody that's having lessons or they've got somebody in and with the best intentions in the world that say, Oh, you should be doing this with your horse. What I will say is just listen to your feel, your intuition and listen to your horse and watch your horse because your horse knows that when you're listening and when you're not, and if you've had a session, cause what happens is with a session it, Help strengthen the pathways between the client, the human and the horse. Cause I'm just a facilitator and even if they're not sure what's being said or what's going on, they can feel if the horse is happy or not. You don't have to be a mind reader. They will give subtle. Suggestions by their body language or by their feel. And if you feel that your horse is not quite ready for something and you honor that and say, okay, I'll step back I'll stop. Sometimes you doing that changes the scenario that they'll say, okay, now we'll try it. And it can be literally seconds, or sometimes it can be that they need longer and it's just being open to trusting that. That guidance, that connection that you have and applying that knowledge to what's going on at that moment. Does that make sense?

Tom: 23:47

Yes. Yes. It's funny cause a lot of our well, actually all of our intuitive hits and our interpretations and what we're receiving intuitively, what the horse's demeanor is and so on. We'll always have a palpable. Resonance in the 3D world, meaning one of the first things I do is I go up to the under the upper lip of a horse. Most sources, there's some, you know, and I'm looking for the frequency of the physical, the energetic frequency of the horse, and it will have an ebb and a flow. And what I'm trying to do is align with that. So I can get a feel for where they are. If they're chaotic, if they're unsure, all of that's in my hand as well. And then I just hold it and. Add energy to it and try to enhance it. Yes. I see where the physical blocks are along the spine to address later and to question and see, but I'm really asking, and I'm having dialogue to bring yourself fully here, who you really are. And I am here in a equanimous fashion. I hold my space and I hold my boundaries, but I'm here in an equanimous fashion to help you become you. This isn't about you just being better at upper level massage today. It's about you being able to dance who you really are. And when you do that, then you get different approaches in the body response differently. And if you do not, it's more drudgery. It's more drudgery. That to me is the, you gotta lay the foundation there. And it's not a lot of time in the 3d world. It's a, Saturation of the right intention and the right approach.

Ronnie: 25:38

Thank you Tom. Can I just go back a little bit?

Tom: 25:40

You bet.

Ronnie: 25:41

For people that didn't catch the last interview, would you like to explain when your horse is mirroring something with the person that's involved with that horse.

Tom: 25:51

Mirroring, that's a pretty good label for it. And that phenomenon and I still call it that a little bit exists. Profoundly and exquisitely with human and horses and there's different levels of it and it certainly exists with our domestic animals. I believe it exists. It's a phenomena of different proportions and different extent throughout we're all connected. And so it exists in family and so on it goes, but in the human horse world, the first of all, horses are intimately conscious of it. It's not, very rarely do you have a horse that goes, Oh, I didn't know I was doing that. What I mean by marrying is, if you're connected with a horse, And generally that looks like a horse you're emotionally and your heart to heart with them. It is not necessarily a horse, however, that you are super in compassion with. It might, it's a horse that just is very connected. It might just be one that you ride and train a lot. And some people that have multiple horses, there'll be different mirroring in each horse. Very specific, very, it's very direct. So in a general sense, mirroring is the horse will take on in their own body. Physicality. The deepest. Here's the catch on this. The essence of dysfunction. That is the what the osteopaths called the AGR, which just means area of greatest restriction. Your core dysfunction is what I would call it. The horse will illuminate that in their body. There might be more certainly more than one and they carry it. And part of me looks at them and says, why do you carry it for us? Why don't you just keep showing it to us? And the, I have never gotten a super clear, consistent answer to that. It's a contract with them. It is not negotiable to try to tell them to let go. So they hold it. So when I'm working on the horse and I come close to one of those, whether I know it or not, they, the air changes. They know what I know and they go, okay, you, you do this, you know how to deal with this. So we're going to, I'm going to stop you, ask you to stop. And I'm telling you right now, what you're working on is not mine. It's his or hers. Okay. Then they love to, even weak old foals do this. Go to your fingers. On different hands. And these are ting points, but representing organ or system, but they're really a gateway in there. Never. Oh, that's it. That's it. That's it. But they're dang close. So what I do is I take that and I take the intuition in my left brain and I go, okay, what does that finger mean? And I track it to the person's issue where it lives in their body. And it always has a focal point where it lives in the body. It's not dispersed everywhere. It's effect maybe, but it lives in a particular, I call them energetic path cysts. They literally have very strong heavy energy that's not in sync and the horses see it, they know it, they illuminated and Especially if I have a horse who client has a very severe, that needs medical attention, very timely, like I'm allergic to tumor or a blood vessel, that's going to be an aneurysm or these things, they will go very early in a session and redirect me into that path and we'll stand there with me as I go into the human, as they're standing there and illuminated and they are. adding and collaborating with my energy. So the effectiveness on a human standing there is much bigger with me and a horse than it is by myself. And the miracles just go on and on when that happens. And that's when my passion just goes that I live for that because it's never, it is in sacred place. And I cannot tell you how many My wife wants me to write a book just on this testimonials of people that had severe debilitating injuries that would have taken them out where their horse illuminated. I illuminated it and they went and sought attention or we were able to clear it and they're still here to talk about it. And that was a profound healing shifts that really, I consider that as an equals shift and I'm really the, yeah. The interpreter, I mean, some horses are just geared for that. Some develop that I have some horses not my own, but I do have one that's my own, but where they're willing to take outside people that have the right attitude that cannot be diagnosed for debilitating autoimmune disease or whatever, and. come to where I'm at and the horse within a couple minutes reads it and goes right into all of the allopathic tests and MRIs and CAT scans and blood marker arrays. They go right into it and they find out what it is. And then my job is to go with the horse and illuminate why it's there. What does it mean? Where did you go off purpose? And it's profound how good they are. And this is a horse that's not, doesn't even know the person. They just do that as service to humanity is what they do. And there is my point, though, is the results are they speak for themselves. And this, to me, is what they are really here for. And what does that mean? Because when you get rid of your dysfunctions, you, of course, you become more who you are. You become more awakened. You become more powerful. And that is what they tell me over and over. We are here on this planet to awaken humanity, period, period. Do they want to run, jump, play? Yeah. But their biggest focus is simply that. That's what they're here for.

Ronnie: 31:48

Yeah, absolutely. You don't know why they carry it, why they carry our own baggage. So I know what I know in my field. You don't need to know everything because otherwise be quite mind blowing but it is to reflect back to you to highlight what's going on in your life. If you have somebody that's pushing things down, especially now at this moment in time, it's about feeling allowing it to come through and not pushing it down and not always analyzing it, just allowing it acknowledging it, whatever this is, this emotion and allowing it to come through and actually feel it. Without the emotional response we normally have yeah, I

Tom: 32:34

think that that is natural law and universal law throughout time and space. Especially things that really bother us. I mean, there is a time when you need to put them aside, but the reality is we should spend some time. Pretty much every day. Before we want to invigorate our energetic body and our physical body, just either letting whatever comes up or something that's been bothering us is to fully walk into it, no matter how uncomfortable and then get out of the way and just evoke with breath, allowing to me, allowing is an action and don't get in the way. Don't try to guide it, but walk into it completely. all of it. And when you do that, you would be surprised how much will begin to transmute and leave you how it leaves you. Often it's the feet, sometimes it's through the breast, sometimes through the hands or throughout the body. But it is a discharge of that. And I think that's probably the biggest Biggest health plan. We got and and it's just natural lot horses need to be. What's interesting is they can be incredibly intuitive and incredibly insightful, and yet they need help. It kind of always amazes me, even to this day, with very simple. How to manage their energy. Often they need a lot of work with how to manage their energy, even though they have perceptual skills that we quite frankly do not, and a lot of that obviously has to do with how to deal with energies that aren't theirs, that are, that are heavy energies that are not appropriate to hold, like we're talking about, and put on by the horse by, by other, by humans and the environment and other horses and so on. But they need to be aware of those, conscious of those and help move them through them. And it's an intention. And once you get'em in play on that, oh, they do it beautifully and then they can teach others. But why they drop that, frankly, it's, it's fascinating. They have trouble managing their energy at times.

Ronnie: 34:39

Mm-Hmm. That's interesting. Yeah. Yes, I can see that. But I didn't realize to what degree. So what was coming through as you were. Relaying that back to me was the reason that they want us to be more in touch with ourselves. So this might sound a little bit hairy fairy and people watching this might think really? But why they want us to get in touch with ourselves is the more we are aware of our own physical energy, what thoughts do, how diseases are formed, how imbalances are created, the more we are aware of that, the more we are able to find tools to help with that situation. And as we become fine tuned and When I'm saying aware, it's your senses become more widened, but you don't have to be still to feel that it starts to be naturally in your day to day. So your senses can be heightened if you are busy doing something, it's almost like they've got a direct link or your energy's got a direct link saying, are you listening? This is going on. And the more aware of that we are about ourselves, the more aware. Instantly, quicker, we can be with the animals and people around us, but also to not absorb what we don't need to. That's very important. This is, this is part of what, they're not just here to teach us lessons. They're not here for our benefit, just for that. You know, they're here to experience their own lives too. They have their own destiny and they have things to fulfill themselves. But that's what's coming through, the more aware you are of you, the more aware you are of me. The less you need to ask because I will know, you will feel, it will be. You won't need to ask, it will just be. And that goes to riding, physical things. There'll be a time when we don't need to ask, it will just be there, but we're not. At that place yet. Because we have to work through it. As much as we want to be there, we won't have learnt. You can't miss the alphabet. You've got to go through the alphabet. You can't miss it because each letter is important. Each point is important.

Tom: 37:05

Yeah, and yet using the analogy of the alphabet, many of us came in knowing the alphabet very well in Metaphorically. So I think most of the work that we do, or I do, especially with students is to help them remember and. They already have these innate abilities and they need to connect with their deeper selves and just feelings of awesomeness, if you will. And when you do that on the inside, you cannot not do that on the outside and the world around you can not not feel it. And when you're in a natural setting, it's been proven even with our modern day diagnostic machines, the trees. The shrubs if you want to do it to a bird or whatever, they all respond to your feelings of flow, of beauty, of compassion, of love, and they shift as well. The trees have been known real, real easily to respond to people's intention and thought patterns and emotional states. Quite perfectly and just the intention of harming a tree will shift its electrical frequency on the spot. And that's been, there's lots of studies out there showing that, but it's this connection and that begs the question, well, we try to close off to protect ourselves. We're taught to close off, to withdraw, and the reality is, well, that might be true in a very acute situation short term, but if you are venturing into the world and you're out there, you need to feel and be yourself in compassionate flow, and that to me is A true physical immunity, and I'm sure that the ability to deal with parasites, infectors, and viruses and that goes way up when you're in that state of mind, and that's our natural state of mind. The problem is we only hit it intermittently, and we're, we're moving as a species as we live there almost completely. That's, that's our inheritance, that's who we are. And It's our birthright. And what I say to people is, who are you not to do that? Because we come to this so much with, I'm not good enough. And that belief, we need to get rid of that belief over all of them. And I just see all the, ah, yeah, that's coming up. The, the darker, aggressive energies out there are really so far lost. They just want to feel that so much that they're aggravated and they, all of their internal manipulation and parasitic actions, all based on them trying to restore themselves to what I'm just talking about. And that to me is, that's what healing really is, you know? And the physical body responds and dances and becomes immune and able to withstand more and more physicality and even more toxicity in this toxic world, which we gotta have right now. Yeah,

Ronnie: 40:10

it's funny I was talking to somebody the other day Because I said to you that I recently moved and it was on the cars and and it's something that I've been asking for, but even when it's something you want and you've got all the assistance and the help that you need, and people are being kind to you, you've still got your own emotions that you're going through, letting go of old part of your life and starting to embrace the new part. And you're in that middle no man's land sometimes. Yeah, so when you go on a holiday and you've had a nice relaxing holiday and the sun shining and you can let go now and you have that nice calmness about you, when you come back from your holiday and you're back into your routine, because you've experienced that feel in the holiday mode and you've come out of it, it feels And I explained to somebody that once you become more aware of your own center, your own quiet place, you can call it meditation, or balance where you're just not really talking, you're just feeling and sensing how you're reacting to something, so you're observing yourself. The more you get climatized with that feel, when you come out of it, it feels ten times worse. Yes. It feels hard. It feels chaotic and you almost have a feel of, Oh my God, what's going on? I thought I dealt with this. I thought it was fine. Why does it feel so hard? And it's because that is such a. Great place to be and it's where you are meant to be. So it's not like you're in a glass bubble and you're meditating on a hilltop all day. That's not right. But that feel, even in a chaotic world, that feel you can still have. And you are observing yourself reacting to external situations conversations. You can observe yourself. And just watch yourself. And that feel is a great place to be. But when you come out of it, it feels bigger because you know the difference. Before then you'd notice it a little bit. But when you've tasted it, when you know what that's like, you notice it big time. And I was trying to explain to somebody that all it's doing is letting you know that that's not the place you need to be. That is not where you're intended to be. This is the place. You can fluctuate, but not to that place. So it's self learning and it's something you can't always explain to somebody because it is a feel. It's a feel.

Tom: 42:53

Yeah well, that's that's core concept. That is another perspective on what we're talking about. If you've ever been in that place, and it's always an unhurried expansive awareness and. Just full, it's exuding compassion. That's for sure. And that, and you get there and you go, you know, Ah, I made it. Cause you are. And I, when I, I've had times when I've in that state of mind, it's always. going home. It just feels it isn't a new place. It's just, oh yeah, that's what, that's what I'm, you know, or, or, you know, it's being in your true self is extremely powerful, extremely balanced with the divine feminine, the divine male is very effective on both ends of that spectrum. And it's all about being in love and being in service, if you will, and and being perceptual to see negativity coming and, and nothing really bothers you. And when I've been in those states of mind I don't want to go to sleep because I know I'll probably not wake up in the same place. And then you get the feelings of, I'm not good enough because I can't stay there. Well, you have to lose that. But once you taste that place, And I, from what I've seen in my studies of lots and lots of people teaching over the years, both in the healing arts and in the educational system most people have never quite touched their true place in this lifetime and they've come close. But if you touch that place, even for a minute, the rest of your life is defined by it. You cannot not, you have no choice, but to keep pursuing that. You can go off track with that choice, with, with logistical needs, but everything's determined by it. Then the other side of that is I'll take students through a A quick visualization in many classes where I asked them to find a time when they felt, and I kind of evoke that close to this feeling, or most of it, or some of them certainly have, and the closest they can get, what I want them to do is get a sense and essence of that feeling, even though they're not there, even if they've been there, and hold it. The minute they do that, that entrains their body to run that frequency. at a level that's not really high amplitude, but it makes massive differences in their ability to then go out on horses and to put their hands on horses and to help that horse to move. So the first thing I ask students and myself is to align with that frequency, even on days when like, man, I'm out of it. I don't have it. I don't have it. You'd be surprised if you evoke the frequency and you get out of the way, you come back in. To at least a functional level and I'm asking the same of equals. I'm asking them to their higher self to come in and we're going for the deeper true meaning of why we're here and what's going on. And that is to me, the core essence of that of any healing station of any healer in any modality throughout time. That was really good. You have to have this, you just got to have what is, you know, and it's our inheritance.

Ronnie: 46:12

Thank you. That was very well explained. We've got quite a few listeners. It's lovely to have you here. If anybody's got any questions for Tom, please leave a message can you see these messages, Tom? It's people just saying hi, oh,

Tom: 46:26

I do. Okay. I got your comments. I do have one question that pops up that looks. Yeah, go ahead. It's off of Facebook. When we are working with the horse via training, the mirroring. In other words, does it only show up when you're trying to clear the horse's body than the human's? That's a great question. Yes, it's always showing up. It's always in play. Sometimes it shows up with behavior, obviously. True, good, natural horsemanship. People like Warwick Schiller and the like are always talking about watch your intention and your energy. And see how it changes as you align with the horse, how the horse aligns with you. It certainly does now on a physical level, a great example of this. I work with a lot of, you know, really skilled trainers, physiotherapists who are very, very, very clear and minutely managing a writer's body position in the saddle and the horse's movement and so on. And what, one of the things you'll find, we're talking about. Mirroring as well is let's pretend we have a horse that's completely cleared. And we have a owner that has a twisted pelvis from a injury or some intestinal issue or whatever, and their pelvis sits lower and so they seat lower. And, and it's very obvious you're going to have a writing biodynamic situation there that you're going to have to try to mitigate and so on. That's one level. That's not the highest level. Let's pretend the owner's been worked with structurally and they're pretty aligned, but they have a liver problem and they have a lung grief problem and they have a job problem. Let's just do that. And we have a horse that we cleared really well, like an hour before. And I do these sometimes at expos to, to illuminate this, the minute their owner has to be their owner. It won't work if. The person's, it's not a horse they're connected to, touches that horse, let alone gets in the saddle. Those organs, if they're deep core issues in the human, immediately go and spasm on the horse. So now the horse can't move. In the exact same, I can predict exactly what's going to go on here. And if it's the jaw that's in dysfunction, the ilium and the hip on that side is going to be in dysfunction. So, and that's real easy to illuminate. And this is an aspect of the physical biomechanics of a core issue in a human reflecting right into the horse. And before we go any further, there are times where it goes to the human from the horse. There are times when commonly a person goes out and buys a new horse. And that'd be damn if that horse doesn't come with the same issues the person already had and use or acquires it. There's many times when I've had clients where their horses always have these debilitating specific dysfunctions and then they sell the horse. And they don't listen and they don't listen. They get a new horse. They asked me to come and clear it, dah, dah, dah, dah. And then you give it a three or four or five months up. The horse came up with the exact same symptomology, exact same thing. Why? Because it's they're mirroring what's coming through the human. And it's a sacred thing. It is just the phenomenon that is, I like to illuminate it. To find traction and to give equals voice and all of us can do that. All of us do do that at a different level. And I just encourage you to play. I do like finding verification for it on multiple levels because it helps us to well, for one, to see and believe. The native peoples over here all have a saying, and it's saying no matter how woo something is, it has to grow corn. And corn in the native world, unlike the GMO world now, it Is a great symbol for blessings of life and food and abundance. So it has to have traction in the 3d world. And so I, I totally agreed. And the more woo something is, the more the horse wants you to see it in the here and now. And that's kind of what I do for a living is illuminated for the horse. And, and anyway, there's some pretty good comments coming in.

Ronnie: 50:34

Yeah. So can we work on your own horses? If so, what, if they are mirroring, can we work on our own horses?

Tom: 50:43

Hence the reason why it's so dang hard to work on your own horse. And, and we have so much emotion with it. That is a phenomena that's true even in the Hippocratic oath that most medical doctors take there is a section in there that talks about thou shall not work on their own family if they don't mean it like an absolute but they're even aware that geez these are just not good outcomes for some reason and really I don't have a mastery on why that is I just know that your What your expectations are with your own horse can often be skewed and muddled. I would say muddled like a muddy, muddy pond or a muddy lake. And however, if. It one day everything feels clear. Those are the best sessions I've ever had with my own horses coming in and saying, okay, let's get down to business now. And they it's not that you can't have profound healing. It doesn't mean that, but it's just, There's too many layers to go through without some intermediate help for most of us to be effective and not frustrated. And other than that, I don't have the greatest answers for that other than try to find a way to get out of your own way and get into your core and get them in your core. And then that's when it happens.

Ronnie: 52:03

Well, we always have an agenda, even if we don't think we do. And I'm talking about personal experience even doing what I do, it's harder with your own. My own horse has shown me and it was funny. This was a few years ago. It was in the evening, it was dark and she was at the bottom of the field. And I still poop it when it's dark that's my grounding. I can just switch off from work. And I was thinking she'd come down and I was like, why won't she come down? So I started to walk up to her and she just stood there staring at me in the distance. And I could just see a little ears cause it was dark. And I was thinking why won't you come down toots? And then I was feeling agitated, I just want to give you a hug. You know, why won't you come down? And basically what she was saying is, I can see your sparks from here, girl. But that's what she was saying. No, you know you need to offload first. So I was poo picking and I was getting. There's a great example, right? And as soon as I realized, because I talked to myself a lot and as soon as I realized that's what it was, I just let go And she walked down, she walked down the field.

Tom: 53:09

And there is the proof in the pudding. And you know, that begs another thing that we had talked about before on our own, and that is whatever you learn and you begin to acquire mastery of or not, and it's important to you. The horses know it and how they know it. They're connected to this, I would just call it the collective, the equine collective. And if you embrace being clear and clearing your energy, of course, she's going to call you on it. And so working with your own horse, you have to be open to going, what is he, she really, why, why are they being standoffish right now? Why are they not? Cause if they won't let you in on them physically, they're probably being standoffish even if you're touching them. So they're, they're, they're not easy teachers all the time. They're gonna call you on your stuff. And that's why you have to be open to, okay, what is my stuff and be open to them and just be, Aware of what they're trying to tell you, but you know, on a. other way of proving that the first time I learned blood and this now is true with every student I've ever seen, at least on the advanced level, when they learn a master, a big, huge, different, hugely effective physical technique, like how to, how to unwind blood vessel spasms because they're incredibly powerful and debilitating. I remember learning it and coming back from the osteoclast class. And going, I don't know how I'm going to do this on horses. Cause my training is on people and dogs or something, you know, mostly human osteo and applying it to the horse was, is not always straightforward. So I come back after, I don't know, five, six days away and I have horses right away. And I go to these horses and I'm doing my normal thing. And there was a medical intuitive there by the name of Mary Argo, who would shadow me in those days. And she says, this horse wants you to do the subclavian artery. And I'm like, Mary, where's the subclavian artist? She goes, I have no idea. The horse automatics is, no, you're not getting a pass on this. I want you to, we want you to learn this blood. We're probably the ones that sent you to the class in the first place. And I had. They, they knew that I knew the blood, well, at least at a level that was good enough to go in. It's, it's the try that matters and they do that over and over and over. You go learn anything deep or a meditative technique or whatever. If it's profound, they're going to know it and they're gonna nudge you, maybe not so comfortably sometimes to bring it up, bring yourself forward, step into your light and go into where you're uncomfortable, but where you need to be. And they do it for a living. So they do.

Ronnie: 55:53

Thank you, Tom. So this is Sally Spencer. What you've described here, the mirroring in the course of groundwork exercise and how found accurs as running frequency through my body and the horse receives this and makes an effort accordingly. I find this possibility comes to me first. I run the energy and the horse does the same. This is in the moment, of course. I'm reading this out loud for the benefit of the audio afterwards. So that core issue takes form. So I am asking your feeling on intention in the creating, the feeling in itself and the horse response by doing the same. What are your experiences on this? I'm not very good at reading long paragraph.

Tom: 56:36

Yeah. That to me is merging with the horse, aligning frequencies, intention and sending it. And a distance is not the limiting factor here. In my work, I'm doing it really from the inside out. I'm going into the body. This is really the same thing. It's the same thing on the outside of the body. You're, you're asking for dynamic gross motor movement and, and, but it's about this aligning of frequency and you initiate it sometimes and sometimes the horse initiates it. And so how it's a dance, it's, it's, it's a sacred dance and yeah, you know, it's the same. I see it the same thing and it feels the same. And where I still really run doubt and I don't know why I just don't go there a lot is working on horses at a distance and the distance I'm talking about. Not just full distance. I'm in my house and they're across the world, but like if they're, there'll be wild Mustangs out here where we are and I'll be out riding multiple times this has happened. And I keep getting there in my, they're in, in my flow. They're in my flow, but they're two, 300 yards away. And I turn around and look, and there's always a lead horse. The one that's talking and they asked me to heal something on one of them. Usually it's not the person talking. That's one of them. And so I do a connection with them and do much like I was on their body, but I'm 200 yards away and the releases, the entire herd will release and yawn and the horse will shudder where I was working on it. And it is. Let's just put it this way in one sentence. We have been conditioned to not believe in the immensity of our power and it's this connection energetic that is our power.

Ronnie: 58:25

You know, when he was talking about Wu earlier, for me, the more we dress something up With phrases and I'm being very careful how I say this. Sometimes a ritual is something that we do to help us focus our energy and it's not the actual ritual or the tools because it's always from the divine energy that flows through us, but it just quietens the mind so that can take place. And sometimes when we dress it up. When we make things more theatrical than they need to be, or we have a lot of energy and as you said, you know earlier, you don't do two, you're working with, you're having a conversation with a body, with a mind, with a soul, and when you have it on that level, that is where more visual, and longevity happens if you're just doing two, you're doing the external, you're working on the external, not the internal, not the sensory. A little while ago, somebody was talking to me, they're asking me can you give an example of working with a horse, how that manifested into the human so much that that was their light bulb moment, their start in their journey of energy? So if something comes through that you're allowed to talk about, because this was a little while ago, but I didn't want to interrupt you.

Tom: 59:52

Those are great questions. I think one of my goals is to have that in a good audio visual format so that you can feel the energy of it, watching it, you know? And it happens, almost every session. And if it doesn't happen every session, it is probably inappropriate for the horse and me to do that to the owner at that moment, but we certainly are going to break open the owner's frequency at a certain level that just watching the session, they cannot be the same when they walk away. That's just the way it is. And it isn't cause I have a lot of stuff. It's just, if you invoke that type of mindset, that is what occurs. But let's, let's say there's often, let's say, especially if I'm out and I'm at a stable and I'm working three or four horses, whatever. And I might be, let's say on the third horse and I'm just going through a major physical pattern of distortion. That's causing a huge amount of physical lameness and on that. And as I go along and I get into not a protocol, but a physical. Even if it's an energetic movement through, I'm in that sort of clearing the body mode, I will get something will happen sometimes I'll see it coming. Sometimes it'll just, I'll flow into it and the horse, I will feel it frequency wise. First, the horse's posture and I set changes and that's my clue and their clue to me that we need to shift the focus of this, Session to where it really belongs and this deep thing that you just touched in me being the horse Let's go find it in the human. So I already have an idea where it is So what I would say is if you're interested in that see how equals will talk to you on facebook while back I posted the a little bit of a description on these fingers because it's a great interface. It's an intuitive physical interface that you can get verification on where you might get some, not just organ systems that are in dysfunction, they're illuminating, but that's, that's fine sometimes by itself, but what kind of emotion or dysfunction may be there or where is the real issue here? So I, anyway, I'll be working on a horse and something will, the energy, the ground literally changes. And the frequency is stills and then they'll tell me it's about the human in the old days. I wasn't sure what who they were talking about. And then they will come to my finger or not. And then I will look at them with my intention. I'll either voice. I usually voice it because I want the person to be involved and say, who are you? Who are you talking about? So, for instance, if they Yeah. If they come to let me just say they came to this thumb on my end, they had, and if they do that, I offer all 10 fingers so they can do left and right. Give me more information. So if they come to my right thumb, I will say to them and I'll touch it. Not usually more than sometimes more than one finger, but that's it. They're not looking for carrots and not looking for treats. They're communicating with the energy of the thumb. You go, yeah. Okay. Then my job is to say, well, whom are you talking about? Cause there have been times when they've said, I'm talking about you. I want to get back to you and I want you to see it. There's been certain like, and you gotta be open to it. And if there's somebody watching, that's really in trouble physically, they may be talking about a bystander because I frequently have lots of people watching. Anyway. She's the owner. So at that point, we, I walk over to the owner, the horse always follows. And I go up to the owner in this case, I would go to hit her, let's say her right lung. So I might ask the owner to do the same. The horse will duplicate the right. And they're always accurate. So I go, my job then is to energetically go into the right lung and see upper lobe, bottom lobe, right lung. Where is the cyst? Where is the focal point of dysfunction? And then what I do is I go into that and the horse is going in with me energetically through, I believe their eyes. That would be I'm not looking at the horse, so I really should see my own video. And they're with me though. I can tell you that energetically, our, our frequencies are exponential than individual. And I go into that and I illuminate that and I awaken it. And it's usually a shadow. The person's often going, well, I didn't even know I had that there. And then I say, well, was there a trauma here or something? Sometimes it's not a physical trauma. And then I'll get intuitive information. And then that's when it comes in really clear. Cause I saw it's as if I'm right there with it. And often I will get I may get a timeframe, go back very, very common. We'll be, and my wife in Crenshaw sickle and other people that do the emotional works are the same three years old or seven years old. They tend to be some sort of switching times in our lives as we're growing up. And there, when I get three. Now sometimes I'll go, is that three years ago or three years? Three years old. She's usually three and it's, I take them back to that time. Now I have a hold of the energy of it and almost everybody can then say, well, yeah, I this is this, this happened to me. And it's when they got shut off as vibrant beings. And it's very common by well intentioned parents, but it's our conditioning. Often it's a child that especially females where they, Start talking about grandpa who passed where they where he comes to see them at night and they voice it and they're adamant about that. It's real. And grandma, our mom goes, shut your mouth, child. You can't be talking like that because we still have the history of, you know, you can't have children talking like that. The whole family is going to get in trouble or burns at stake. So at that point in the modern world, those days are somewhat over, at least in that covert way. I Illuminate this energy and ask them to go into it and fully embrace it. And the horse goes in with me. Sometimes the horse will go in and breathe into it and pull out with me. Even people who are not open to energy when the horse does that, it's as if they cannot do anything but go forward through it, their horses awakening them in an hour session, massive. Dimensional levels. And they stepped into something and they just go with it. And the horse, I hate to use the word, but they sell this whole thing. Pay attention to this, stay with this. If you really want to be close to me, be close to you. And we go into the tissue physically, and it comes to crescendo, the divine male comes in, and I nudge the, you know, The issue out of the lung, and sometimes the horse will release it for the human. But then also the horse will look at me if I didn't get it all. They'll tell me and the completion energy and the groundedness will change and the person will look at you like I have no idea what the hell happened, but it was a big deal. And they usually come back and say, thank you so much for doing this and this and this. And then I go, well, you should thank your horse. Cause it was really the horse. I was the facilitator and that's the truth. You know, but I hope that sort of gives you a flow. I may be working on it, something or wanting to illuminate a deep issue. The horse will, will transfer the issue that the focus is on the human. Now, sometimes if the person's not open to it, you're not going to go in and move their lung issue. Okay. I illuminate the place that's in dysfunction such that there's a physical pain there that they have to face it and, and give them information on Okay, you need to go to this. Here's some people that are probably good for you to go to, to go get that cleared. I do that a lot where I refer out or refer out, or I don't have time to clear it on the person or it's not my intention. Or it's not appropriate and they go and do that. And those are they're profound and that's the horse is always correct. Always. They're just dead on and I ask them sometimes I go, well, how is it that you can just see these things and you can go to the finger to illuminate it and they kind of look at us and they'll kind of give us sort of a disgusted look like it's like, do you see that the light bulbs over there? Do you see the bright one? Yeah. Well, that's what we see. It's very obvious to us. And how to communicate. It's not so easy. So that's really many times. Our job is to just apply the message. Anyway, I hope that gives a different look at at what it may look like. You know, no substitute for being there and being the human because advice, you know, or doing, you know, that's, that's really where you sense it. I know my students, when they watch it, you cannot. In cranial sacral, we do one of the classes we do is this model emotional work and ideally my little left brain expectation says, okay, today and the next day, the two days here, we're going to be working on unwinding illuminating emotional dysfunction in horses. And. In horses, too, that they own on their own, and they're human. The problem with that is the universe doesn't work that way. It works that way when it's meant to work that way. So what ends up happening is I tell the students that we will stop whatever technique we are doing. If this occurs, we're going to go into the emotion when the universe, when spirit says so. And and then I illuminate techniques. We have to engage that emotion in that realm. And it's not something that we can evoke because we want to, it's something that we ask for, and we have the intention of going in and the universe and you step into it. It's as, as it should be, you know?

Ronnie: 1:09:43

That was a brilliant explanation. Thank you. I was just going to say the word divine timing it doesn't mean biblical divine timing. It's just literally, we can't see all the pages and what I'm getting shown now is just like your neuron pathways, there's grids, there's avenues, and they have to be lined up for the process to flow. So that's what the divine timing is. And if it's right for all people involved, that's what will happen. So we've got another question. I'm just going to pop this last question up and then I think that'll be it Tom, because we've been on quite a while and I don't want you to get too tired. So Yeah, that's what I was looking for. Okay. What do you do for horses with trauma in areas C1 not neurologically problem?

Tom: 1:10:27

Yeah, well, it's going to be somewhat neurological, but that's great. That is the OA joint that he's referring to. And that is the most dominant, effective joint in the body. Disruptions in that joint. With the Atlas and so on we'll create a massive amount of distortion downstream and upstream. So primarily what do I do? I assess it right away. Energetically with, with cranial sacral rhythm will be inhibited. So that whole output to the whole neural systems inhibited. Then what I do, which is a little different than most people out there by a long shot is I will. Cool. Look to any blood vascular dysfunctions there. And I start back at the heart and do that whole thing. And I unwind the juggler up in through all the major blood vessels in there. And they all have energetics, especially the blood vessels between the OA joint. And there's two or three main ones. In about 5 10 minutes, then at that point, I do a still point, cranial sacral still point. Very common, powerful technique that's pretty easy to learn. And what you're essentially doing is shutting off the cranial sacral rhythm. And what that does is it asks it when you shut the rhythm off by holding it. Even it's gonna be efficient. The body's energy. Maybe it's even the brain recruits. It has so much to do. It doesn't even know the problems there, and it begins to address it and sends in all kinds of helpers and energies to move that tissue. Then I do a lot of mobilization standard move the Atlas. down. And what's really interesting is the divine feminine that moves the atlas down. And I come over the atlas and I use really light energy, but lots of intentional energy and I let it unwind down and I'm opening space in that joint. And that's a key place to do to do that. Now that joint Often is the cause of, well, it is the cause 90 percent of the time of head shaker syndrome because there's a lot of nerves that come out there. If I had a bone, a skull here, I should do that next time. The other one that is really key for this discussion today is it will block the flow of especially the ventral vagal nerve often. It won't let it through and ventral vagal nerve to me, I think a better name for that is the sole nerve. It is. Managing and regulating, I think, everything in the body. I have not yet found a spot it does not go to. Allopathically, they will say that's not true. It only innervates above the diaphragm. And I would say they're very wrong. I've watched students move the coffin bone with it. And it will block that. It will block the ability of, cause colic a lot of times. Because that the regular dorsal vagal nerve is the prime governor of the timing of the peristalsis of the intestines and how they integrate and flow and dance with each other. And it is a common problem with that. People will feel out of sorts. A lot of. brain dysfunction will be coming from that because you can't get good flow through there physiologically and you won't be able to work on the interior of the cranium well if that joint's like a gatekeeper and the sacrum needs to be working with that joint in that area if you want to awaken the pineal gland To awaken intuition or the pituitary and the hypothalamus, which govern the endocrine system and and a lot more. Those are often being physically distorted via that push off the O. A. Joint. So, yeah, the way joint is huge. You get tired of hearing about it in classes, but it's a think about where on our discussion. Back up a minute and think about where does that joint lie in terms of sacred anatomy. It is a gatekeeper to the sixth and seventh chakra. It sits right above the thyroid. So you will find these horses and these people with constant OA problems have some sort of an inability to walk and speak and perceive who, what they really are. And what's really going on, you will see that correlation over and over and you can make the same discussion all the way down with these physical issues, what they end up really being, and how to get them, they end up showing that way, a lot of first, second survival issues, tribal issues with pelvis. No question. Many people say that many from the UK have illuminated that and published on that. Carolyn Mace, the medical intuitive over here in the States, has a saying that I quote all the time, and that is your biography becomes your biology. And when you begin to see that and prove it and go, oh my god, that's true you, you become on board with it and run with it. But the OA joint certainly is a gatekeeper for these intuitive downloads and your ability to talk to divinity.

Ronnie: 1:15:30

Thank you so much for your knowledge and your input and thank you to everybody that's joined us and engaged with questions and comments really. Thank you so much. It's much appreciated. Okay.

Tom: 1:15:44

It's a lot of good energy here. The people joining. Yeah, there's quite a lot of people. It's awesome.

Ronnie: 1:15:50

And one more. Do you work with points on a horse's head? Okay.

Tom: 1:15:56

Yes, I do. At different levels. and for different energies, if you will. The cranial sacral rhythm is certainly one of the biggest ones because wherever it's deficient, there is deficiency. I utilize certain acupoints as well. Absolutely. And or acupoint Kind of refit point combos like the upper lip, for instance. Well, that has in it the very the TV 26 there, which is a potent point for the governing vessel. But you but grabbing or touching and engaging the upper palate, whether above the lip or underneath is preferred. It's touching cranial nerve one which is the olfactory nerve, which goes right into the limbic brain. But it, for some reason is the interface where the horse first touches the world and taste the world, if you will. And so you can engage the frequency of the horse there a lot. Yin Tang point. I use that a ton. If you want to just try something and you have an OA problem, right in the soft tissue between the occiput and the atlas is a gallbladder 20. That is a potent mover of the tissue between there. It is a great point for moving and helping the OA joint. So yeah, I use, so these are acupoints that I'll use. Other points that are reflex points and then cranial sacral rhythm. Oh, absolutely. Kind of I use the body as a symphony. If it was one system, therefore, one modality would or one type of approach would get and was appropriate. That's what I would do. In reality, I go to it and say, what's most appropriate and most effective, most efficient here at this moment that the horse is asking for that it needs. And that may be blood. It may be nerve. It may be. acupressure. It may be myofascial release. It may be trigger point. And I do love moving bone. Absolutely. Love moving bone, but it's the symphony aligning with the horse's frequency. That's what it's about.

Ronnie: 1:18:01

Thank you. I hope that answers your question. I'm sure it has. Yeah, brilliant. Okay. So I was going to go on to something else, but as you were talking and I thought, do I really need to say this? I'm going to say it. It was a visual and what I was being shown to say to you. I don't know if your information is going to come forward from this, but it was a simple visual and you've got the horse there, And the human, and you've got the hand and the finger pointing to the head, top of the head, and to the tail and what they're saying to me is, it's a pyramid. There's a pyramid, and that's important. I have an idea what it means too, but I'm going to let you see if you want to put anything towards that.

Tom: 1:18:48

Now the pyramid you're talking about, is that just on the horse or between the horse and the human?

Ronnie: 1:18:53

Between the horse, so I'm stood here, horse is there, sideways. Okay. Head, tail, and I can literally see a pyramid and a heart.

Tom: 1:19:05

Ah, tell me about the heart.

Ronnie: 1:19:07

So we talked about the heart in the last time, yeah, yeah. The heart's consciousness came forward. So, the heart. It's like a funnel. So you've got your vortex of energy from your heart and it's spinning. But what the saying is, you don't see that because it's fast and then the whole of the horse. Literally showing me a visual. So is there something you want to add to that?

Tom: 1:19:36

That is profound. Actually, what that means to me is what I do with those types of channels. I mean, I know quite a bit about that, but I still know that. I'm, my sense is I need to go deeper and go evoke that and to immerse myself deeper. The cranial sacral aspect of the horse. These are two massive energy centers. Okay. They also, you know, and they work together to to mobilize each other. So if the OA joints out the sacrums in, in Is in emergency mode and vice versa. And so it's the grounding, it's all of that. But you evoke,

Ronnie: 1:20:19

sorry, the spine is not just the spine. It isn't just a physical, which you know, anyway, but there must be something more coming through this because it's

Tom: 1:20:29

It's these deeper energies and you're evoking the connection in a sacred geometric shape that that comes off of you. And if you notice, though, the center of this shape is between you and the horse. And, you know, it is perhaps at the end of the day, all the thousands of techniques that we develop come down to one simple one like that that does it all. And we don't always need to know everything and be honest with you. I I'm so I'm ready for that technique. And I can glimpse it. And I think this is part of it where you are just facilitating the energy, the healing, and you don't need to know all this stuff sometimes, but I would encourage people to try that. If you can reach the horse's sacrament head, you can do it energetically. But the problem with horses, they're usually too long and you'd have to be touching them with your chest. To be able to do that even if you can or you could I sometimes I often put my hand under the halter and pull them around To I where I can get to the the second but when you do that, you're distorting the energy a little so, This cranial sacral rhythm goes, is dysfunctional, but I would say evoke the Just evoke it and see what happens. That's the beauty of this is you don't need to have to have gone through all these classes. You can try certain things that you're meant to do. And everybody has their own gifts and style and input and everybody like When they come through my classes, the first thing I tell them is I am not cloning you. I'm giving you techniques to enhance your benevolent Skill set and I always get them further. I get them they become they get themselves further along when they embrace themselves and go into it and integrate my technique to theirs and make it theirs and This is one that I I think I need to play with

Ronnie: 1:22:25

So somebody's just said it's a body's memory, which goes with something else came through. There was more that came through, but

Tom: 1:22:33

I think you're doing is illuminating. The way energy wants to interface in a way that's probably more efficient in many ways. And I know connecting heart to heart with the Equus. I do you do a couple of podcasts just on that and its effectiveness in the 3D world. But, the body definitely stores everything, the memory of it. Mm-Hmm. And and in the heart memory that forward is, and in the heart is access to the AK record. Yeah. And so when, a lot of, many times when I, the body's unwinding like even a, a, a bone, if you evoke the bone to go, not in a chiropractic high impulse, high velocity at me, but you're ready. I've gotten, bone doesn't move and now it's ready to move. And I find out which way it doesn't wanna move. And then I. Barely engage it. It unwinds its way. It got traumatized and reverse order and then and it clunked in and it's a huge memory. It's, it's massive. The osteopaths call it the intelligence of the inner physician.

Ronnie: 1:23:40

I just got goosebumps then. And my awareness is telling me. I need to introduce you to somebody, whether you match each other or but it's interesting because this is what she's been saying for a long time. The horse that we see, is not actually how they are. The physical, how we perceive them with our eyes is not how Enerjetially. They are, they are quite different. And this is something to do with what they've just shown me there. But that's another podcast. This has been great. It's been so lovely having you back, Tom. And as you were talking, even me, sometimes if I'm listening with my mind, not this, it's like, Oh crikey I'm trying to absorb this when I switch off I can feel it. I know that makes sense to you. Yeah. So if there's people that's heard this conversation or seen us talking and listen to Tom, if you're not sure about something, please reach out and you can send me a message or you can contact Tom. All his details are tagged to this interview and he'll be more than happy to get back to you. If there's something specific from this interview that you'd like more information on then again get, get in touch with either Tom or myself. Is there any parting words that you'd like to say before we say goodbye? Because it sounds quite a lot, it sounds intense and it sounds very, you peel it back every single energetic molecule it's all connected. So that's how you can do what you do, that's how I can listen to information that flows through me. I will only get the information that needs to land in my doorway. If it's not for me to pass on to somebody else that's going to link in with that. I won't get it. I don't need it. So the information that flows from anybody is relevant to you and whoever you come in contact with. That's the beauty of it. Yeah. Yeah.

Tom: 1:25:36

Speaking of that, what comes through, I had other things I was going to probably part with and what comes through is you, you utilizing and asking with your intuition, things that are sincere to you. Ask in a very strong intention, not the word demanding is a little strong, but it's pretty close. Expect an answer. And the words that I'm getting are, who are you not to receive that? So we got to, what stops intuition and, and our path many times is we, we just flat out don't believe and we don't. But really, we don't think we are worthy. Who are you not to is what, if you could be on the other side looking down, they all say that. Oh, no, no, you have no idea who you are. Please stand and shine your light. Who are you not to receive profound guidance and, and do some profound things on horses? And you don't need to go to a ton of classes to do it. It helps, but if you have the right intention, the right frequency, you will do things that will be outstanding because you aligned with the real driver of disease and put things back into vitality. So yeah, who are you not to believe my parting words?

Ronnie: 1:27:03

Thank you, Tom. We all have impostor syndrome from time to time. Mine's not so much now. When I'm in it, I'm in it. But when I'm more in the human mode, then little voices come in, you know, but that's normal. If you'd like to just say a quick bye, I'm going to pop you out. And if you don't mind just hanging on a little while and we'll have a little chat after if that's okay.

Tom: 1:27:23

You bet. Take care.

Ronnie: 1:27:26

Wow. What an amazing guy and And he's so open to conversations that some people maybe shy away from or a bit scared to ask questions. You should never be scared to ask questions and never be scared to listen to your intuition because that's. The most important thing, listening to your own guidance. And that's what horses want us to do. They want us to be aware of our own true being as Tom said and understand our own power and that's not power, ego power, it's our own power to understand, to know, and to move with that, move forward with that. And you don't have to know all the answers. You don't have to be an expert. All horses, any animal just want you to be authentic. If you're scared, Acknowledge that. If you don't know, acknowledge that. Don't pretend to be something. It's funny, I have clients that are teachers, writing instructors, and the biggest thing they have to get over is feeling vulnerable. And I say, if you show a student that actually you might not know the answer, or you have those moments of not knowing what to do and being anxious, they will respect you more because That's how they feel, it's about being authentic. Nobody's perfect and 100 percent all of the time. Okay, get off my soapbox. I hope you've enjoyed this conversation. It was steep, even for me at times. It's not that I do not understand it. I was just hoping that the message was coming across to the listeners, to the viewers, because that's important, because that's why we do things like this. Once again, thank you for joining us. It's important because if it wasn't for you, I wouldn't be doing these podcasts. If you've got nobody listening or want to know, then, you know, that's why you do it at the day. Take care and remember, if you want to get in touch with Tom, please do so, or myself, but until the next time, take care and bye for now.