Equine Voices Podcast

Interview with Andrea Pole - Equine Massage Training Uk

February 05, 2022 Ronnie King Episode 35
Equine Voices Podcast
Interview with Andrea Pole - Equine Massage Training Uk
Show Notes Transcript

Interview with Andrea Pole.
I'm very pleased that I had the opportunity, to invite and interview Andrea Pole from Equine Massage Training UK.

I met Andrea while studying to qualify as an equine massage therapist on one of her equine courses back in 2018. 

I can honestly say it was an amazing experience and I was so lucky, not only to have a wonderful group of like minded people to study alongside with but also to have a passionate, hard working and very funny Tutor in the form of Andrea.
She has the biggest of hearts and she can't help but show it!

I hope you enjoy this episode as much as I did. It's full of fun, facts and laughter as this is one thing that is never in short supply, when you spend a few hours with Andrea.

So sit back, relax and I hope you enjoy this episode.

http://www.equinemassagetraining.co.uk/
https://www.facebook.com/equinemassagetraining
https://www.instagram.com/equinemassageuk/


Interview: Live Video Version
https://youtu.be/bvPDkgchNH8



Video version (alongside applicable podcasts) can be viewed on facebook and YouTube.
https://www.facebook.com/equinevoices.co.uk
https://www.youtube.com/@equinevoicesuk
https://www.instagram.com/equinevoices.uk

Contact Ronnie.
mailto:equinevoicesronnie@gmail.com


Ronnie:

Welcome to equine voices my name is Ronnie and I'm so, so excited and so pleased that tonight's interview is with my tutor, she was my tutor Andrea pole, who's an equine sports massage therapist among many of the skills. She can explain all the things that she does so without further ado, I'm very, very pleased to bring in Andrea.

Andrea:

Good evening everyone I do apologize for my lateness having been stuck on the M5, the M5 is a bit of a law unto itself I'm afraid. IAs Ronnie said my name's Andrea Pole I've always been around horses, I guess I'm ever since quite young really typical pony club kid, you know, racing, around on Welsh ponies, falling off horses coming home before me. Carrying and myself very bedraggled behind me and I guess what I was younger, you know the only thing you could ever do is when you went into the horse industry was to be a groom or to be an instructor, you just didn't really know what you were going to do. I didn't fancy any of that, to be honest with you. But I knew I didn't want to be in an office environment or if I was going to be in an office environment, I wanted to be in an environment which mixed the two up. So I sort of started in a totally different industry believe it or not. I started off in horticulture and I still have a love of plants, even though I can't keep house plants alive till this day, I can still kill any houseplants. And I really enjoyed that. And then that led me into leisure where I did did leisure management in university and there worked for for a couple of city councilors just, just working in events and managing facilities etc but I still always, always had a love of horses. And I guess it all sort of started when I met a gentleman called Bob. It was an echoing dentist and he always said, oh girls can't do horses, teeth. But that was a bit of a red rag to a bull, really. So that's how I basically started. Riding horses still working and I sort of hung around with Bob a little bit, got thrown up a few walls, dragged around stables etc. Then I went and went to America where most of the dentists went at that time with my dear friend, Chris Morris, who is now I think semi retired from horse dentistry, which he should be because his elbows are a bit broken now. So I trained really as a horse dentist, so I was very, very lucky. I got to work with a gentlemen called Todd Williams in Canada and became involved with the industry in this country and myself and another team of people we were fundamental in getting the worldwide association of equine dentistry approved by the British equine veterinary association and our CVS as trainers for advanced dentistry. Unfortunately, Dentistry then was very much hand tools. There was none of this fancy motorized equipment and everything. And I hate to have to say that it's a really, really difficult profession and maybe Bob was right. You know maybe it is really for girls certainly wasn't for me because I sort of fell apart to be honest with you. And then I took the opportunity as my godfather was gentlemen called Ronnie Longford bless him he's now passed away the age of a hundred, a couple of years ago. And he was trained by John Mc Timmoney. Went to John one day to have his shoulder fixed after a point-to-point accident. And he said to him, well, I reckon I could do this. And John Mc Timmoney and he said, oh right you can, can you, Yeah so he went and he worked for John and then he worked and learnt his craft along him and then when John had a heart attack, Ronnie then drove him around and I suppose he became probably the first back man or one of the first back man, you know and he was quite fundamental in changing the industry really, you know, and people used to cue up for miles with him, used to have a clinic in pebworth and people used cue round the block where their horses in trailers, et cetera. Amazing man. Well before his time use for Raddick machines used ultrasound on horses, a lot of old fashioned vets I like to call them, came on board with him and as an alongside Sherry Scott, another dear friend of mine, who's a physiotherapy I think they obviously paved the way for the rest of us really. I think I was really lucky and I called Ron and he sort of at the end of his career, really when he wasn't gallivanting all over the world, he used to get flown to Barbados, to Ireland, to France, to Italy, which in those times was a big thing, you know? And I caught him at the end of my career. That was very, very lucky in that he took me under his wing and I studied the Mc Timmoney coy technique in Oxford Brookes with Sheila Hudson and the past, and then did the veterinary manipulation course with her as well and then back that up. So I did my human qualifications and my veterinary qualifications. And then I did my veterinary physiology diploma when I was doing all this these degrees, these MSC degrees et cetera they didn't exist you know Ronnie you did what you were out there, I was very, very lucky. I have had access to Mary Bromley who still scared me to the day she died bless her and Sherry Scott who's still very active in the industry in her eighties, a wonderful, wonderful lady, quite ditzy, but very, very knowledgeable and again, a pioneer in the field really. So I've been really lucky in that I've managed to take up with these people and then actually go forward and build my own practice. So I've got the advanced equine dentistry certificates, and then I'm human trained and veterinary trained as well. I don't do humans now. Very rarely do I do humans. However, I have just done human sports massage qualification, to be honest just to do something and to top my brain up and also to fix my poor husband david was always moaning about his neck and his shoulder and his back. Friends and family, you know, and occasionally the odd horse owner, the sort of hobbles towards me that my general advice is you need to put ice on that and go find somebody who knows what they're doing. So it's a long time since I put my hand on a human. So that's a bit of a background, but I mean I've had a wonderful time Ronnie the horses have been very good to me. I've been very, very lucky. I've, I've worked in Dubai, I've worked in Ireland. I spent a long time in Canada with a wonderful lady leslie who was a big pioneer in Canada. In physiotherapy, she had originally from Glasgow and now she lives in she lives in the summer in cochran and I think they then go up to Vancouver island for the winter because it's a bit kinder to them. And her and her husband Duncan, who did a lot of round pen work and he was very friendly with the late and great Tom Dorren's. So I learned quite a lot about, I hate to say it natural horsemanship but I learned quite a lot about horsemanship just hanging around with them really and working out just how horses work, nothing special about horses. They're just, they're just horses really. You know, they work on a different plane to us. I think their instincts are far more homed in, I think because of the pace of our life. We've lost a lot of that, you know, a lot of our instinct and a lot of very empathy as well, like people are very bogged down with life now. Whereas horses are just horses. They do get bogged down. They tend to carry baggage from one owner to another, you know they tend to get moved about, there's not many horses were lucky enough to stick with one person all their life are there so I think when you take what on you take on what's gone on before but that's the same with people isn't it. You'd meet friends and they come with baggage, everything comes with baggage, really. So, so for me, they've been very good to me and they're very, very special in my life. I've got one horse Mr. Peter Fincher, my fat cop, who I love who I bought off one of my clients and I said, You ever sell this horse, I buy him off you. A friend's livery yard, I was looking for another horse and I'm quite by fluke. A gentlemen farrier I knew, I said, Tom do you know this horse that Beth has on her website. He said you know that is that Peter Fincher. No I said Louise would never sell Peter Fincher, it was Peter Fincher. So I ran Beth was gallivanting in the states for a week and I said do me a favor when you come home on Saturday check, he's got four legs. And she rang me on the Sunday, said, yeah, he's got four legs sent me video. And I said I'll buy him And that was it. So I did everything that you shouldn't do by a horse not vetted I suppose, looking at it, but he's my mate is wonderful. He's a, he's a lovely horse. We're quite well-suited we both as bomkers cause each other, but he's yeah, he's really special. I use him and my old horse pheon we used to use for students to teach equine massage. So yeah, they're quite special to me. And and I think what I really love about it is that we're always learning. We also make the stakes. And we just have to keep trying and we have to learn off them and they have to learn of us but there's nothing more rewarding when you finish work and you turn around and they look at you and you know, you know, they say, thank you. And I think the horses that I do regularly on the on the big race in yards. They all know who I am, some of them you know bit fresh and you've got to be careful around but the majority, they just fab. I just love them really. I just love it when I'm far too soft for working in racing and all that sort of industry, but they've been good to me. And I don't regret, I don't regret having done what I've done. It's a tough industry, it's hard. I think it's changed phenomenally. It's changed phenomenally over the years. I think there's a lack of what I would call old Nagsman or old nags women, perhaps if I'm going to be politically correct, around. You know, it's a shame. We do our best for the horses and that's what I try and do every day. You get off days, same as everybody else does, but that's sort of, that's what I do. And they give me a lot. They keep me on the straight and narrow. If I'm ever stressed about anything, if I'm ever worried about anything, then I go to work and suddenly everything seems all right again. So they, they give me an awful lot, Ronnie and I will always be thankful for that.

Ronnie:

Wow. Reminded me, when we first started on the massage course, how you got your skills and your knowledge but I'd forgotten. And as you were going through it, I thought, crikey, she's done so much, she's done so much

Andrea:

I've just been very, very lucky. Been on a path, which has put me in touch with, with lots of very, very good people. It's put me in touch with people, I think. Hmm maybe not, but it's also put me in touch with a lot of people who have been very, very good to me and they've seen something in me that I haven't seen in myself and I still don't see myself. I'm just, I'm just Andrea pole. I'm, I'm nothing special. I just go out when I do my job every day you know, I hope I do it to the best of my abilities. There are some times I never want to see another horse. I've gotta be honest, which means I need to get off the world for a week. You get a bit horse out. But at the end of the day, I'm like any other horse and we never like pack up, but just want to go and pat my pony Walk me dogs. Yesterday I finished a bit early. I went down the yard, jumped on in my jeans and my jodpurs and my boots wized around the block, you know, because that's where I needed to be at that particular time. But yeah they're, they're special, but I'd been very, very lucky. I've been very lucky indeed. And I just thankful really that I've met the people that I have and they've only touched my life and that hope that's what we try and do through the teaching as well is just, touch people's lives, maybe perhaps put them on a path that opens up new doors for them make just to increase their knowledge and their thinking about horses and lots of people come on our courses say, oh, I've never thought about that before. And I always say, you will never look at a horse again in the same way, you know? And that's what we hope to do really and I've got brilliant team around me. I've got Paul center and Rosie and Jackie and my husband, David, who was Mr. Fix-it came and found you Ronnie, when you went the wrong way at the M6 at first day.

Ronnie:

Andrea was my tutor and that's how we met. I was looking for something to do alongside the communication, because when I do the communication you won't have the same clients each month. It's not a monthly thing I'd see them every, maybe six months or yearly. So although I have regular clients, it wouldn't be the same ones and I was looking for something else to do alongside and also at the beginning when I was looking, it was because I wanted to be recognized because I don't have a piece of paper for animal communication because I'm self-taught I thought I might need something so people would See me as somebody that's doing a job. So I started to look at things and I did look at other massage courses, that was way before I joined yours. But nothing grabbed me and I kept thinking, why am I doing this? Is it because I want to fit in or do I really want to do it? And at the time, my answer was no it's because I wanted to fit in. And also equine communication courses, but then I thought why would I want to do somebody else's course just to have a piece of paper to say I can do what I allready do now. And then I was thinking, is that my ego? Or is that because I don't need to do it and I thought, no, it's because I don't need to, because I wouldn't do the way they showed me I do the way that I feel I should be doing it. But then eventually I thought actually I would like to do something else. And your course came up and I don't know why it just, it just attracted me and then obviously I enrolled. The first weekend that I was supposed to be on Ross on Wye which is the way the course was held. I put the address into my satnav and thought right I get up at four in the morning and just press go and so in the morning I got in the car and it was dark. That's my excuse and I pressed with maps and what I thought was the right address and I set off on my journey and I was so excited. I was thinking I hope go in the right way. Anyway, I had the radio on and it was driving along and two hours later, I was thinking, I'm not sure if I'm going in the right direction. And I looked at the map and it had taken me to the wrong place and I was two hours in the wrong direction. So I was trying to ring Andrea or the girls on the course because we'd all sort of linked up before we started and saying I'm lost totally wrong place. And they said well don't worry how far are y'all went when I'm two hours in the wrong direction, so it's going to take me two hours just to get back to where I started. And I remember rolling into the classroom, david came to get me didn't he. David bless him, long suffering David. Oh, I know. All I could think of, oh my God it's my first weekend. What are they going to think of me yeah. It was funny, it was funny. I think you might got a cheer when he came in. You made me feel at home and you just said sit down. Don't worry. But everybody was lovely. I feel so lucky, that first of all you was my tutor because I think you're an amazing woman and you have a sense of humor and a warmth to you, but you expect us to do our work and you, you don't suffer fools gladly and if we don't do it, you tell us. So I think we've got the best of both worlds with that. And I was so lucky that everybody on that course was lovely. And I remember that to this day, so I remember your warmth and I remember everybody that was on the course and I was so lucky that I was with all those guys, because I loved it and I couldn't wait for the next time that we came down and I still miss it. I still miss coming down to Ross-on-Wye.

Andrea:

Yeah I think we enjoy what we do. We've sort of wandered off the path a little bit and we decided that maybe we were going to make it a bit more because you don't actually need any qualifications to practice equine massage in this country it is a bit bizarre, really. So you know, you can do a course and you can get insurance and you can join an organization. And we're not an accreditation body, but we tend to work quite closely with IATT who are very, very supportive of us. And yeah it just seems to work really. So we try and produce our students to a level three standard. I think we'd probably be the equivalent to an A level, but as you know, it's quite intensive, it's quite quite a lot of work. It's a lot of case studies, et cetera. Practical and theoretical exam. It's changed a bit. We've had to adapt it, you know, just to go with the times really. And you find well, that didn't work very well or but that worked very well. And you, you go from there really. So we did decide that maybe we were going to make it a little bit more official at one point and maybe have it accredited by a professional body. But unfortunately that hasn't worked out and what it tended to do is, it was so much paperwork. It was just an awful lot of work. AndI felt it took away an awful lot from the course and it didn't mean anything. The qualification on top didn't actually mean anything, you know, it doesn't make you a good therapist. I think we, we all chase pieces of paper. Now everybody wants a piece of paper and everybody maybe needs a piece of paper, but it doesn't make you a good therapist. My firm belief is, is once you become ego led with it, you know, become ego led and you think you're the best and there's nothing else to learn or you get quite angry about things. I think you lose a gift and it is a gift. And I think I'm quite straight too with my students. I can teach them What to look for. I can teach them a routine. I can teach them what I know, and Paul can do his bit and Rosie can do her bit but I think it's just time and experience and you have to be humble. You have to be very, very humble about what you do. You have to be humble, you know you can have all the qualifications and pieces of paper in the world, but actually if you haven't got the feel and you haven't got the empathy and you can't, can't work with your gift, then. You're not going to fail, I'm not going to say that you're going to fail but it's different in being reasonable and good. And I think it's very difficult because as I've said previously, we work in a fast world and there's a lot of jostling for position and there's a lot of this and a lot of that out there and we don't trust, you know, we don't trust. Now I'm going to sound really fluffy. bunny we don't trust in the universe, we don't live on positive vibes and things and I try and keep away from, I think that's, that's the biggest thing I've learned over the last couple of years is just to, is to keep away from that sort of environment and those sorts of people. And I've sort of almost shut down, I suppose and I just have a very, very tight circle of friends now. And lots of acquaintances. But people I can rely on and people who know me and I know them and we all work and play together and thats how we are. I am glad that I am at the, towards the end of my career rather than starting my career, I have to say. I also say about that in the world in general. I'm glad I'm the age I am, I'm not going to disclose that. First thing I say to my clients, to my students, I am a lady of a certain age and sometimes I go off on tracks and I never know where I am and I never knew where I came from, so bear with me and I can't remember everything, there's a lot of stuff in here you know. Yeah, I'm sort of glad I'm the age I am, the world is changing and it's a different place and I think it's really hard now to find positivity and likeness. And maybe that's just me being a bit pessimistic but it's just difficult and the teaching is becoming more difficult as well because people are much more demanding now. They, they want everything on a plate, you know, it's totally changed. Totally changed to how it was when I first started and I think it's quite sad really, because you mentioned people like Ronnie and Sherry and, Mary people go who? And you've forgotten the people who started the industry and things, but I'm just in a bit of a maudeling mood but yeah, it's a totally different place now to how I started and I'm afraid I just toggle on or now in my little day job and I do what I can do to my best abilities. It's been a couple of tough years for everybody, with COVID et cetera. And I think it's put us all back a step. And I think from my point of view, I very much sort of whoa now and I'm a lot more about it all, you know, it's and I think I've had to be just for self preservation, I suppose really. I think the world has changed and people have changed and there are some lovely people out there, but it's a hard job. Even the driving is hard, you're up and down the motorways the drive driving is quick. People wants to get somewhere fast. I've been in a position where I've got speed in points. I've at last got a driving license with no speeding points, so I really, really careful. I'm one of those people that you go, why she going 30th. It's a 30 limit and I don't want any more points. And the whole of it makes it difficult. Horse owners have higher expectations. You know, there's much more technology available to horse owners now there's much more to diagnostics And sometimes people would shout at me, you know, I sometimes questioned the ethics of it all. If a horse isn't sound the field and can't be a proper horse, why would you be jabbing it and doing this and that because you want to go to and compete, it doesn't sit well with me Ronnie and people think I'm hard and maybe it's because comes from hanging around farmers and all my life but when horses are done they are don and I do think sometimes, we're not kind to them, we think we're being kind to them but we're not being kind to them and it's, it's tough, that's a tough one but evertone wants to live forever don't they, which we saw when we were in COVID and everybody wants their animals to live forever but none of us do and neither do they. It's a hard industry and it's tough. I think it's mentally draining as well. I'm not painting a good picture of it here.

Ronnie:

So anybody that's thinking of starting working in the horse industry lol.

Andrea:

You'll get kicked and get bitten and you get stuck in all these diversions, which really stresses me out, took me extra hour to get home the other night because the roads were shut and you get so far and you say, so where do I go now, I'm about to Tee junction and your sat nav is trying to take you back the way you go and you're like, no, I can't go down there. Yeah, sometimes you think, oh beam me up Scotty. I don't see myself retiring I just see myself just sort of slowing down, probably.

Ronnie:

Just slipping away.

Andrea:

Yes. I've been away quietly, well maybe not quietly.

Ronnie:

What you do is a really physical job that you're doing, every day and that takes a toll on your body as well as, you know, everything else and when you've been in it as long as you have, as you've just said, you see the beginning stages, when you first started to where it is now. I think if you talk to most people in life, regardless of what the work is, they'll have a similar story things are changing and definitely people are get impatient. They want, they want results, but they want quick results at times as well. I'm not talking about everybody.

Andrea:

Some people are wonderful and they would say if it needs time, or we're not just talking about horses here Ronnie you were just talking about life arne't we, yeah but you are right.

Ronnie:

Yeah I think if they have horses that they compete with or they have a goal and it's always there, sometimes that gets in the way. Sometimes they need somebody like yourself just to say, well hang on a minute, you know, that's all well and good, but actually this is going to take this amount of time and then you have to reevaluate and see what happens. Or maybe your horse needs some time out because. You can have horses that still perform and still get to the peak. But doesn't mean to say that they're always enjoying it. They can get to a point where they start to switch off because they've reached that level and then you're getting pushed to go to another level and then to another level and it's almost like, well hang on a minute, you said you'd be happy with that, now you wanting that? Yeah and to be fair they see the horses doing well and they think, oh my God my horse loves this and they do. But sometimes they get to a point where, I did but actually and then they started to break down mentally and physically as well.

Andrea:

Yeah, they do, they do and I often see horses especially some competition horses, I'm not saying all competition horses but sometimes you come across horses and you you know It's not loving life, they shut down the eyes is shut down and they're auras a different, they feel different. Sometimes they smell a little bit different as well, you know and you just know, and then of course it's a very delicate act. But if you're dealing with horse owners who just got the one horse or a couple of horses, you know you can discuss things and chat about things and say, maybe have you looked at this, maybe we thought about that, et cetera. But I mean with the competition horses, they're there to do a job. And they have to do it and that's it. And sometimes it breaks my heart and a little bit and I used to many years ago I'd come home and I'd be really quite upset and tearful. But now I tend to say it as it is. I say you need to stop with this blah, blah, blah. I put it in my book and I know I put it in the book, I think, choose to take notice, then that's up to them it's hard. But then I always think when I'd been there and I've shown it some kindness and they've shown it some care and some empathy and I've done best. And hopefully that goes a long way, you know. It's funny old thing and I think you have to have the ability as well to come home and shut the door and leave it there. So not all skipping around paddocks with ponies you know. I can always remember us having a chat that I'd love to be able to do what you do. So I'd love to be able to communicate and everything, basically saying but you already do that you know and you know what, maybe I wouldn't want to hear what they say, get off, shut up. Somebody said to me about having a communicator, I don't want to know what he's gonna say. I already know what he thinks, he thinks I'm bonkers I don't need to know that. The way he looks at me looks at me and it was really. No cause I know what he's going to say.

Ronnie:

Yeah but you say you communicate obviously through your hands but you're intuitive so, it might not be that you hear words but you definitely pick up on the horses. You feel their energy and you said you get a smell, I've never had that. You see, so what's this smell that you get.

Andrea:

It's sometimes, especially if something's ill they just don't smelling right just don't smell right. I think the eye is probably the biggest giveaway really amazing. I mean they see don't they the opening to the soul really and the eyes are the main thing really and of course coat, if they're not lifting off in their mate, they, they, they look rubbish because they don't feel well, you know, it's, that sign isn't it. But you just got to do your best haven't you and I got some wonderful horse owners. I've got some wonderful clients who've I've had for many, many, many years and I'm very, very fond of them. Some of them have become really good friends and one lady said, me am a message today about a horse. And unfortunately her horse has been, been retired due to injury and she said, oh I don't miss out chat Andrea. And I said oh that's really nice. You know, that's so nice. Thank you for that. And you know, it's yeah, I got some lovely horses and I got some of the owners and people say, are you stopping, you take it on anymore like. I just take on what comes my way, but I do get quite stressed because I've only got so many hours in the day and I can't get to everybody, you know, I think that's the other thing that's quite stressful is that if I had 25 o'clock 5:00 PM appointments, that would be fine but I don't have, I got four in a week. And I like to keep in check with the clients as well. You know, if something's not quite great, I like them to get feedback, et cetera. So I don't like to be a sort of hit and run merchant, taking money and gone. I like it to be a relationship that can be grown on over the years. And then you get to know the farriers and the veterinarian. So we're all working as a team really, just to help the horses. I hope from a student point of view that's, that's what we betray and I'm sure some students come and they don't use it as a business they use it for themselves, a lot of them use it for their own knowledge and they don't want to do anything with it, which is brilliant, it is fine. I mean, we just almost a platform for people to open the door and if you wish to step through it, that's fine and if you don't wish to step through it, then that's also fine. I'd like to think our courses are fun. I think everybody comes along and enjoys and we all have good friends and we always love everybody. We love to see everybody and I hope it's a good learning experiences as well for everybody and let's just say we don't know everything. None of us know everything. So we get the occasional curve ball and you think oh, I don't know. You have to zip home and have a look and go through all the books, I'm a bit of a book person rather than the internet person, but that's my age I think. But yeah it is what it is isn't it. A good friend of mine says it is what it is. But I do love what I do I might be taking a break from the teacher and I'm not sure yet. We've got a fresh course starting in February and we really, really looking forward to meeting everybody and we're all excited and we've putting together all the binders and, you know the famous binders and I hand them out and say don't panic. But what I always love is a majority of people come to us and they don't know anything and when we finished you know in six months, they grown so much, they've grown and they've developed and it's just lovely to see people. It's lovely to see people develop and developing their confidence and developing their skills and just see the group come together as friends and some people stay friends forever, yeah it's a good thing, it's a good thing. But I think we might take in a break just because we just need to take a step back a bit, reevaluate everything where we're going.

Ronnie:

You've got two people Paul and Rosie, they're new people that I haven't met, I mean I've seen them on your page but I haven't actually met them in person cause they weren't there then. But I loved the course, the girls that was on ours. We all loved it there. We liked going out for a meal in the evening.

Andrea:

I know, I know. Yes we had a group of ladies, ladies of one of our courses and I always remember her coming in on the Sunday, one particular lady I'm hanging like a bat was her word. And she proceeded to put their heads on the desk for the rest of the day. I am hanging like a bat. I've never heard that expression before. So funny you know, we have little nicknames for everybody cause I am rubbish with names. I have to say to Paul and Rosie you, which one is this and they say you know, so-and-so. Who are you talking about? And then they say, oh so-and-so got a rucksack and I go, ah right okay. And then I have to remember things. So nicknames and never in a derogatory way there just because I'm daft and I can't remember. And we always tell people what we call them. We always tell people what we call them. I mean, when poor, unfortunately do use absolutely wonderful, wonderful student, wonderful personality. She slipped in the kitchen one day and managed to throw a pop noodle over her head. So she was christened noodles and that was the end of that. She was noddles for the rest of the course. We get the occasional man on the course and bless'em they have to put up with all the mad women don't they, but they all fit in and we have a wonderful, wonderful gentleman, Carl Schmitt from Cornwell he was just, just such a wonderful man and really good friend and ah just great. And so many stories to tell. That's what I love about it as well. So many stories that people have, and it's just a merging of people and talk and of experiences. It's really, it's really good fun and I think sometimes and this is what we find when we. Dabbled a little bit once you go down the sort of official route, you lose that element because we're all chasing time, chasing paper, chasing this, chasing that. And it's not what we do. It's not what I do and it's not what we do well. We, we teach well, as I said, Paul is a wonderful horseman,rosie's brilliant horse woman and we have a good team and we just merge and we get on and we know our jobs and we love it. So hopefully once we get a little bit back onto the track that we want to be, then we'll be we'll kick start and off we go.

Ronnie:

I remember you always saying it doesn't matter how many times I show you a skill or show you a technique. It's just tools in a box at the end of the day, it takes you to go out and practice because that is going to be your learning. Yes and I always remember you saying that and it's very true but everything. I mean, if you get a piece of paper say this is what you do. That means you're a qualified person in that, you need to go out and practice and the only way you do that is working on the horses. That's where the experience comes from. That changes as you change, the field changes the intuitive side of you kicks in, but when you're first doing it, you're doing it as as you were taught.

Andrea:

Absolutely.

Ronnie:

For me personally, I mean, I loved my course, yeah I loved it and I would do it again, but I haven't used it as much as I should do. Probably because most people want me to do communication but then I don't push that side because maybe my comfort zone is what I already know, but I still would not have missed that because I met you, I met the people on the course and some of the girls have gone off to do a massage and they use it all the time and I love seeing their updates and what they're doing with the horses and their work. So it wasn't a waste of time or money for me cause my heart is still glowing from the time.

Andrea:

Ah that's lovely actually, thank you so much.

Ronnie:

It does because you teach in a way that to me is the way that you should be taught. It's about interacting with another person. It showing them it's guidance and watching them grow. But you don't wrap it up in Cottonwool and you don't call it different names. It is what it is. You know, you can put a ribbon around it and call it that but actually it's still that today. And that's what you teach. But you do say, you know, it's up to you how far you want to go with this? You could go a long way, or you could just use it for your own horse. You didn't make it something, it isn't, you gave it as it is.

Andrea:

Yes yeah. But I would like to think that that sort of person I am anyway and I think, for different reasons and things lately, you know, we've had a bit of a kick in and it's been quite tough and we've had to deal with different sorts of circumstances, not just me, but everybody in the world and I think it just makes you sit back and think and but I'm quite straight forward. I don't like to fluffy bunny up you know and there isn't anybody who loves thier animals more than me, you know? I mean you've asked David, I mean, the house is full of the drafting things you know and as he says, he comes at the bottom of the pile, after all the dogs, Peter Fincher, the cat. I hope that it's a bit of sanity in which is a bit of a mad world, and I really hope that the people who come really enjoy the courses and take a lot from them. But I also hope that that's what happens when I visit horses. I want it to be a pleasant experience for the horse and for the owner and today's been a pretty, pretty tough day. I've had to move around some, some quite big horses, but you're exactly right in what you said earlier on Ronnie yeah. I am not the same therapist now as a i was x amount of years ago, totally changed the way I do things totally the way I'm surveying much I think a Ronnie Longford person in that, I always start from the front and make my way back. Everything is always check from front to back, regardless of what issue it has regardless of what I come to see it for. Unless I've gone to see something specific, you know like an injury that might need laser in or ultrasound, but it's got to be for me, it's gotta be the whole horse. It has to be the whole horse and that's, what's important because they're quite complex creatures and they're the ridiculously made creatures. They've got this big body and four silly little legs you know? Yes they are amazing, they are so amazing and of course they were never meant to be as big as they are. And some of them are big and then we wonder why they break. Cause don't put together the best.

Ronnie:

You see some of these cross-country horses that have been bred for that and their shoulders are huge and then they've got the tiniest back and a little rump and all the power is at the front end. Yep. Which actually you want some of that at the back.

Andrea:

Yeah, you do. I mean it all has to come from the back, I mean if it doesn't come from the back, that is probably one of the biggest things to try and get horses and horse, horse owners to understand, the power has to come from the back. The energy has to come from the back and it has to be allowed to come through in order for it to come through to the front, the core has to left. So that's really important the core strength, and then the front end can come up. They're already stuck with 65% weight on their forehand. So they don't really want to be pulling along any more weight on it you know. It's almost like a bicycle wheel, I suppose, to put it into context. I would say I not the best biomechanics expert in the world, there were other people who that is what they do, and they are absolutely brilliant at it and I got a lot of respect for Dr. Hillary Clayton, I love her work. Russel Maguire, amazing people, they're dedicated to what they do to looking at information and to dissecting it. And sometimes you think, oh yeah, yeah well I've always known that because my grandfather said, or I've always done that because that's what I was taught. And that's always interesting because well, that's nothing new but actually to a lot of people it is new but now of course we demand scientific backup to everything as well. So why did you do that? Well because I just do. And of course I understand that and I understand the science behind it and I understand why we have to trace things back and link for information and for further developments. I do understand that, but, you know as I said at the beginning, horses are just horses and horsemanship has not changed for centuries. They haven't really changed, but what has changed is the way we keep them, the demands we put on them and it's just a different environment for them, isn't it, we keep them in small paddocks, we lock them up in stables. Sometimes they don't get turned out because it's raining and it's wet and the fields are rubbish, we've got all sort of gadgets that people put on them because again, sometimes they need to rush them for whatever reason, you know maybe they need them sales, they need them to look pretty and then six weeks to sell them on. And I not going to judge those people because that's their job and that's what they do but this there's always a cost to everything. There's always a cost for everything and I'm in the same position. I'd love my horse, well I think Pete would like to live out in the field and be fat as Lowry, but then he also likes his house as well. He's always sort of like, come on, come on raining, and I can always remember, I used to have a Connemara cross horse at one point many years ago and when it rained that was coming in, it wasn't staying out. Just use to jump over the fence and come in and people say, oh, they like to be outside all the time. Sometimes they want to come in. Just come in down the yard and the girls would laugh because he'd stop at everybody's stable annoying everybody. Finished some haylage or hay off whatever and then into his house, you know? So I think we the whole way we keep horses as well as changed and that affects them quite a lot as well. I think that's something we touch on on the course, and it's sometimes things that people don't even think about. It just opens up a different word really. And it's just a different way we keep them and I'm not saying it's any worse or I'm not saying it's any better. I'm not for them being out to 24 7, I'm not for them being barefoot. Whatever environment that horses in at that particular time, then I have to work with it and I think it needs improving then I do. I don't know many of my clients use hay nets anymore. If they hang it head height, there's not much difference in the lumber area stretch as it is as if it's on the floor. But if any of my horse owners about nets up there, I look and they go, oh yeah, sorry. They used to put the big hay racks on the walls. Chuck the hay over and they'd be stood eating like that. There are some people who do that and then it's just an education thing isn't it?

Ronnie:

If they was in the wild, they'd be picking berries and things off of bushes but it's not constant, is it? It's not that pulling down the whole time feeding.

Andrea:

And of course they need to put their heads in different positions because they need to use different muscles. The best thing to keep your whole sound, just to cross train it is to do a bit of this and a bit of that and do this and that. But unfortunately Ronnie when you look at how dangerous the roads are, especially in Britain now I mean, you take any life in your hands. If you go out on your horse now there's dreadful clips of horses on social media being hit by cars and the highway code has just been updated. And we can't be too hard on each other because as I said, things have changed and if it's not safe to go out on the road while you've got no choice, have you, you have to ride your new school and keep within boundaries to keep you and your horse safe. So even though it's easy to say, it's actually circumstances have changed. I think you'd be lucky to keep them open big fields, but then the big fields shouldn't be full of plush grass either. You look at the Welsh ponies live where I come from in the middle of Wales and in the winter they look blooming terrible, especially when they're coming out of the winter and then in the summer they're fatter as butter. But that's how they should be and they're eating rubbish really. There's no good grass up there. It's rubbish, but then of course we bring them down here and they want really nice grass, that causes problems, you know. But I don't like to judge don't like to judge, because I think everybody has their own story and everybody has a different experiences and everybody has their own reasons for doing things. That could be outside factors looking in, et cetera. It's not fair to judge because people all in different circumstances and some people would love their horses to all be in the herd. But if your yard doesn't want that, then it's difficult.

Ronnie:

You have to do the best with what you've got at the time. It's just making people and when I'm seeing people, I'm saying that to me too, because you become more aware through your own, but it's through watching and through understand this. My journey ongoing the whole time with my own horse. And in ideal world, you'd have acres of land that wasn't lush with the shelter that could go in and come out of the trees, no flies. The little poo picking fairy that goes around in the middle of the night.

Andrea:

Wouldn't that just be great.

Ronnie:

Actually I quite like poo picking, not through boggy fields no. When it's it's frosty.

Andrea:

Yeah easy, easy but I suppose in my dreams, if I was going to be anywhere ideal, I'd moveup to where dear friends of mine, Mark Walters and Nick are and just outside bridge norse and you know, they dressage, lads, and they're very good at what they do. Mark also does a lot of pony patting is they call it, natural horsemanship and they keep their horses in the herd you know, their dressage horses and everything, they've all in herds. And that would be if I lived at that part of the world, that's where my horse would live, but I'm quite happy where I am, I love my yard. The atmosphere is lovely, the horses are great, you know and they've all got their little friends and things and so you just pick the best of what you've got. Absolutely from my perspective, from my work perspective, if you're happy and contented, as long as the horses have got feed shelter, what they need, that's better than being somewhere, if they're care where their owner is anxious and worried or a bit for stress head. That's the scenario they don't want, they'd rather not have that. So the choice of, it's a relaxed person and where they are, to yeah. Freedom and stressy person. But tell people about your, other side, you do a lot with horses, but you also do singing and a theatre work. I've always sang, so I do quite a lot of singing, not as much now as I used to but I think COVID sort of put a stop to that really, because all the singers spreading it about apparently. So yeah, I do a lot of singing and I'm just getting back into, I've got two concerts plans, et cetera, and things have trained classically and I still trained a good friend of mine. Josh, who's down in Cardiff, I'm involved with the welsh college, et cetera and we get together on the Tuesday and murder a few songs, well we tend to laugh and mess about and sing the accassional song, I just joined wonderful little choir down the road, which was a set up in COVID for the benefits of singing on mental health. And that's lovely, lovely group of ladies and that's good fun as well. And I suppose the other thing I do a lot with, is I ballroom dance with a wonderful lady who's become one of her best friends MirandaDe Bara. You know you meet people in your life and you know you've known them before and she's one of those people. It's a bit like Paul, Paul center, who works alongside me. I haven't known Paul Long but Paul is very special to me and you know I've known him before. There's some sort of little lane isn't there that connects you to speak people. But I really love, love my dancing and it's good fun. I get to teach some of the kids. They all call me miss Andrea, which is really nice, very respectful but they all know I'm bonkers because especially yesterday when I lost a leg warmer and I rolled up my trousers and I still had it on. I looked for this leg warmer. Sorry it's alright kids. Don't panic, it's still on my leg. Oh miss Andrea, sorry. We have really good fun, we have really good fun and fun. Friday it's always a marathon night. I started quarter to the five and I finished it about half past 10. Cause we teach and dance right the way through and you know Ronnie, it's wonderful because different set of people, it's such a good thing for your head. It's a good thing for me because I have to concentrate, I have to focus. It's really good physically, I'm not a gym person and I just love it. I just love it. And I do my exams and Hey, I'm only a baby ballroom dancer. I'm not one of these high flying strictly people, you know, but I just enjoy it and just enjoy it and again I enjoy seeing the kids and the adults come in and develop. And it's just a good thing to do. That's all I want to be really, I always said when I was younger, that that's all I wanted to do was make a difference, was make a difference. Everybody makes a difference. Nobody ever thinks they do but everybody makes a difference. But for me, I just wanted to feel that they've made a difference. And I hope in some small way I have a hope I've touched is touch some people's lives and some horses in my lives and animals and I hope I have made a difference and that's all I wanted to do really. I hope that when when my time comes to sound really morbid, I hope that I can say, well that was a life well lived.

Ronnie:

Well, it's certainly full life Andrea.

Andrea:

is a bit hectic but I liked that, I liked, I am well aware ronnie there are far less years in front of me than there are behind me. So I'm not waiting around.

Ronnie:

So when you come back from your break, what else would you like to do, so if you could do anything, what would be your plan, your mindset, where would you like to go next?

Andrea:

I think I would like to teach some of the techniques that Ronnie taught me, not from a chiropractic point of view, but from a spinal manipulation point of view and maybe soft tissue manipulation point of view, it's just a little, a little seed just really to carry on,just to carry on his legacy really and to carry on the greatness of the man. He was so humble, didn't think he did anything really but just such a very, very talented man and, and you know, very, very fond of him. And that was a life well lived.

Ronnie:

He took you under his wing. Yeah, he was great, I loved him to bits, absolutely loved him and he was a great fun and we did have a connection and I always knew what he was thinking and what he was going to say and he'd say something, when somebody walked away, he's just always had that twinkle in his eye. And when he was younger, he was a ladies man. And even when he's older, he always had a cravat on, shirt and cravat or shirt and tie, very old fashioned and he's just a wonderful man but there were wonderful people, I've met some wonderful vets in my time, who were wonderful. Robert Morgans vetting Carmarthen. Brilliant horse vet down to earth. Jeff Lynn had neck surgeon, brilliant, brilliant man, good friend of mine, rod Fisher, not for the fainthearted, but hey you know fabulous, fabulous people who've really, really helped and been supportive on my particular journey really. And you know it's not being without hiccups and it's not been without mistakes. And sometimes I think, why did I do that? Why did I say that? But that's life, isn't it. As long as you learn from it and you move forward. So I think even though it has its ups and downs, I've had more ups than I've had downs. And I hope that I've learned from the downs and I hope that we continue to go forward. I'm sure you well, cause you've got that enthusiasm and that passion for what you believe in and what you do, even when you get tired you've, you've got that drive. I was just thinking, when you said about the old school types of people, it's stuff that they've known for years and they don't have to know the why's or explanations, they just know it works and that's what they teach. And that's the sort of thing that you can't always write down in a book. You can tell a story that might help you, but it's, it's not always techniques and stuff. A friend of mine who he's in the states and he came to help me with toots actually and I think it was driving home one day and the sun was setting and I thought, oh that's so pretty. So I messaged him and said, oh God, look at this, so I did a little video. and said, look at the sunset and it's beautiful and he wentRonnie we have some shine here, yes but it's not this one, this is our sun to shine. And he was near his dad and he said I can't talk to you in a minute, I'm with my dad and then he rang me back and he said, I've just explained what you do to my dad, can you explain it to him? I've sort of explained it, can you tell me what you do. I'm sure he won't mind me saying this, but he comes from church going people and his parents are lovely people. I don't know them, but they're the church goers in the states and I thought oh crikey how to explain this without making it sound, you know, hairy fairey and I was thinking, okay, so I've tried to do scientifically sort of. I explained about your intuition, that we've all got it. And I was sat in the car talking to him for about a good 10 minutes or so 10, 15 minutes and then there was this quietness knew I could see him cause he was on video phone and he goes, yeah, Yeah. So that's a bit like me when I was a rancher when he was a young man in the middle of no man's land, there was six foot snow, and it was just you and your horse. He said you had to have your horse trust you or vice versa to survive and get home safely. So there was this two way communication without talking and he basically said, what I said in 15 minutes in a sentence and I went oh my God. I said, that's where your son gets his skill of horses. So this was guy that doesn't work around horses anymore but it was part of his younger life but it was that relationship of you are equals because you need each other and without each other and respect, you're not going to survive and that was it in a nutshell. I thought wow, that one sentence yeah a lot. Yeah it does. That taught me a lesson, not to pre-think what I think about it.

Andrea:

Yeah. And I think the biggest thing you need to do, is to trust you get instinct as well as to really trust you get instinct. And that's quite difficult as well, because again, life's quite quite fast, isn't it? And even though I'm quite bubbly, I suppose, and gregarious, et cetera. I need quiet sometimes and I need to come home and I need to just be quiet or I need to just jump on the horse. Like yesterday just went around and there was no huge Chitty chat between us, you know, it was just come on pony lets go. Yeah let's go on the block shall we? Yeah why not and I need that, I need that, I need to be able to center to myself and to get off the planet sometimes because it's toughest, it's a tougher world out here. And in an ideal world, I think oh sometimes think I'd like to be able to go home to a desert island, you know, when have a bit piece and then come out to a bit and then go back on again you know? But we'll see, we see. I have no idea where my future's going. The moment I've just put it out there and I'm hoping the path will open up for me.

Ronnie:

You're enjoying your life and it's a full life, yeah that's all you can ask for at the minute isn't it.

Andrea:

Exactly, exactly and I'm a great believer in, you never put in a position in this world that you can't deal with. And sometimes you just have to sit there and you just have to say, I need a bit of guidance here and it will come along and somebody will come along or something will come along and you just pick up the path again. No path is ever wrong. So I think changes are coming but I couldn't tell you what sort of change it is. But I'm not going anywhere but I think maybe you know.

Ronnie:

Yeah, you can not feel it, you don't know what it is but I think, like you said, because of the last few years, I think that's happened globally, anyways, it's not just individuals it's it's across the board. So that one thing affects the other and sometimes people get frightened because they like the comfort of knowing, but actually it's exciting, it can be exciting and it can be liberating as well. But I suppose it depends on where you are in your life at the time. Andrew it's been really fabulous listening to your chatting away. You've got so many funny stories and I know some of them you can't say. Everybody's going to be able to see what most people see when they hear you cause this is you, it's not you put in on a show, this is you. Like you say, when you need to switch off you'll just be quiet, but that's still part of you too. So thank you so much.

Andrea:

It's lovely and you know you're welcome any time.

Ronnie:

I will be don't you worry.

Andrea:

Please come visit. Thank you for asking me and if anybody's tuning in, thank you.

Ronnie:

Is there anything else you want to say before you go.

Andrea:

No, no, just bless everybody, take care and be kind to everyone.

Ronnie:

That's one thing I was going to say, like you said there's lots of people competing for the same thing and there's new things coming along which is exciting but if anybody ever says to me, oh, you know, there's so many massage people, there's so many, this that and the other. I always say from my understanding there's enough work for everybody but if you feel there isn't, that's what you're going to attract because people will go to who they're attracted to and they might have the same work skills, but for them that person is who they could maybe talk to and that person brings something else. And it's about being respectful for our fellow workers, we all have something that we bring to the table. And it's about being respectful and honoring that person's skill. You know you're a massage therapist. I'm a massage therapist but I am no way you and I do not have your skills. You can have same label, but they're completely different people. Yeah. I think we have to remember that the night you said you can have a piece of paper and a qualification that does not make you a good therapist. There's lots of other skills that you can't teach and that's been a good listener, good communicator with the animal and the person and having empathy and compassion, but also being able to be straight when it's needed and their skills you have to have, but also give in away that you'd want to receive yourself because you know, if somebody talks to you in such a way, you just switch off and you won't have them back again. So you are thankful for somebody that's honest, that comes from the heart and that's what you listen to and that's what I see when when I look at you. I have another colleague who's massage therapist and she's the same but different. She has that same feeling, but she's a lot quiet then you andrea.

Andrea:

That wouldn't take much would it, let's be honest. So I'm going to pop you in there don't disappear because they will now have a quick chat before you go, so say bye to your friend. Bye everyone and remember be kind.

Ronnie:

She is such an amazing lady, I truly mean that I loved my experience with Andrea and her teaching and I will remember that to the day I die, that sounds very cliche, but I will because she made such an impact on me as a person. And it's her heart, she has the most biggest heart but she's not a bullshitter and she doesn't take fools lightly as well. I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you've got any questions that you'd like to ask Andrea you can contact her directly. Thank you for listening and I shall talk to you soon. Thank you very much and bye for now.