Interview with Dr Susan Fay (Part 2) - Sacred Spaces Sacred Wisdom

Interview with Dr Susan Fay.
I'm was so pleased to have my second interview with Dr Susan Fay.

Susan went into a little more detail on the intentions and ethics of her work and why this is so important for both horse and human.

She is such a wonderful and funny lady, I couldn't help but get a little star stuck.
I even forget an important name . . . (don't worry, it wasn't Susans!) lol 

So sit back , relax and I hope you enjoy this episode.

Regards Ronnie

Note:
This recording was taken from a live stream with viewers asking a few questions. 
Most of the Q & A's remain in this episode but where aimed at a live audience.

Dr Susan Fay:
Are the silent yet powerful ingredients missing from most horse training techniques and riding instruction.

In her research of horsemen and women who appear to have a gift with horses, Dr. Susan Fay outlines the invisible things these equestrians do that make their interactions with horses appear effortless.

As a research scientist and life-long equestrian, Dr. Fay spent more than two decades searching for scientific explanations for why some people are able to develop seemingly spiritual relationships with horses. 

She discovered that equestrians with this gift merely know how to use their natural abilities in a way that most of us were never taught. These abilities already exist inside of each one of us, so we merely need to understand how to use them. 

But we also need to be willing to open our eyes and hearts and let go of what we believe is possible.
https://www.drsusanfay.com

Interview: video version 
https://www.facebook.com/equinevoices.co.uk
https://youtu.be/gH4WIxoYk5A

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Contact Ronnie.
mailto:equinevoicesronnie@gmail.com

Transcript

Ronnie: 0:11

Welcome to equine voices my name is Ronnie and today's interview is with the lovely Dr. Susan Fay and this is my second interview with Susan and today she's going to go into a lot more details about the ethics and the reason why she works in her particular way, to do with the horses, their reaction and what they'd like to share. We'll also be talking about a few other things and hopefully something interesting at the end of the interview that you'll be looking forward to hearing about so without further ado I shall bring in Susie. Hi Susie

Susie: 0:48

Hello how are you Ronnie

Ronnie: 0:49

I'm fine, welcome quick introduction just in case people don't know who you are.

Susie: 0:54

Yes I am Dr. Susie and I'm in Colorado right now and I wrote a book called sacred spaces. And it's about communion with the horse through science and spirit. So I'm very interested in blending those two things together, our science part and our spirit part and not separate them. And then by knowing ourselves fully through our science part and through our spirit, that we can start to find out who we are and how we actually live in this world and communicate with other beings. And my whole thing in my later years of my silver years of life is to pass on whatever knowledge I may have come across during my life that can help other people, with their horses or with their other animals or their human partners. So that is my, my little spiel, I guess. You can always go look me up and find my Facebook group and look at my website. I finally got that going, so it's www.drsusanfay.com so that's about everything and you're welcome to look at those sources and see what other people are experiencing with the things that I teach thank you Ronnie.

Ronnie: 2:08

You're welcome and you also have your book do you want to talk a little about your book for those that don't know about it.

Susie: 2:15

In 2019 well, it was before that you know, it usually takes a long time to write a book. I just had this really strong knowing that I was supposed to put into words some of the things that I had experienced during my time interacting and training horses and just living on a ranch. It was things that I didn't think people would come across necessarily in their regular life or if they did, they didn't get a lot of credit for them. They were made fun of, or ridiculed and other horse people would make fun of them for the different ways they were doing things. And I thought, well, if I write a book that really goes into the science of why all this energy stuff works, maybe that will give people some sense of relief and something just look toward or to, to give them the validity to move forward and do these things and the confidence that it works and knowing they're not crazy. It was funny I had a poll on my Facebook group and it's like, one of the questions was, well this is a group for those people who are weird, you know? And I find that kind of funny because for me having done this for a majority of my life, really studying energy and how the brain works and all that stuff I find it quite normal. I think I'm quite normal until I get around the normal people and then they look at me like there's something wrong with me, why would you think that way? And I'm like, well because I've lived this for so long, it's not weird. And so it takes me back because now I really surround myself with people who work in this realm and who have these beliefs, that there's something beyond just our way that we've done it and that there's energy and learning about all those things and how it works and how we can replicate what we do. So it can't be something out there because everybody can do it and that's really my focus is I will show you those really simple things that you will be able to do this. Just the same as I can or maybe even better than I can. And that's really, my goal is like just reawaken your natural abilities, your natural senses that you have. And they're not limited by what we think they are not the five senses. There's a whole lot more and when you engage all of those senses, you start to see the world in a different way. And that's what I love is like just opening up to seeing the world in a much broader sense and experiencing it in a bigger way.

Ronnie: 4:46

Your group that you have sacred spaces, it's a lovely group and lots of people, well, most people there have read your book or they're about to read your book and then they go out and practice some of the exercises that you've written about and the feedback is lovely, when you hear the stories, it's such a nice place to be and just see from the tiniest thing. It's is special, the tiniest thing and once you notice that that leads you onto a whole new world of an amazing adventure and experiences. I smiled to myself because I'm aware of that through my work but I'm by no means an expert in anybody else's field, it's just through my own way, but it has a similar feel. So I love being part of that group, it's really nice and it's a nice group of people. We've got quite few comments, we've got quite a few people, so Kay Hammond says hi, she sports massage therapist and she knows my whole she's been out to, to it's a few times and she's recently bought your book after seeing the interview that we did last time and she's joined the group which is lovely. And here's Kathy, Kathy she's wonderful. I'm just going to go through these. So we don't take too much time and we can get back to the conversation cause I don't want to ignore people. Let me know if you know these people.

Susie: 6:01

I know Gail, she does wonderful animal communication.

Ronnie: 6:04

Oh wow.

Susie: 6:06

Kathy Price who was on before she does wonderful healing.

Ronnie: 6:09

She does, yeah Toots has experienced some of Kathy's amazing energy, that's yeah. I talked about that with an interview with Kathy.

Susie: 6:17

Of course I've seen Jerry at a clinic in Michigan. You're going to make me cry before I even start.

Ronnie: 6:22

So Laura, from Germany.

Susie: 6:25

Wow okay you're not supposed to do this to me cause I'm like gonna lose it here in a minute.

Ronnie: 6:30

Right let's get back to what was chatting about. So on our last interview we touched on what you've talked about now. Can you explain if you're dealing with trauma, so you communicate with horses for lots of different reasons but when it comes to trauma, do you want to talk a little more about that side of it and why certain things are really, really important when you're dealing with a horse that's released in trauma and that would be the same for a human, the things that you're talking about, you would want that in place for human too, for the same reasons.

Susie: 7:03

Okay and just kind of a note on this when I started this and when I wrote the book and before I was really doing a whole lot of going out and working with people, I didn't realize the level of trauma that horses were holding and that they experienced through different training methods that they went through or just life experiences, just like people do. We all accumulate this trauma over time and if it's pretty significant, then it can actually begin to interfere with the ability for us to relate to other people, to connect to other people and to form strong bonds and for that reason, I started looking at this too, within the horses, they have the same problems. People came to me struggling to get a connection with their horse, but the problem wasn't that they weren't doing the right things. They were doing all the right things to have a connection, but it wasn't happening and they weren't getting through to their horse. And when I was with that horse, I began to realize well the reason you can't get that is because this horse has so much trauma. It cannot bond with anybody. It doesn't even know who it is right and that's when I started to develop some different ways of like, wow, what are we going to do? Because these horses need help. Just like people with trauma, these horses are experiencing something very similar to PTSD in humans and what can we do to help them to resolve their trauma as at the same things we do with humans. You know, and so it started me down this different route of really looking at this relationship that I'm trying to help between the person in their horse. What level of trauma on either end is causing this not to work out the way each one of them wants it to and how can I help that? And it's really taking in my PhD dissertation was on the effects of trauma on our lives, essentially our health and our mental and physical health. So I had a great deal of research in that area, although that's not where I wanted to go and work. I thought, oh, I I've done my dissertation and I'm done with the trauma piece. And I'm just going to go and have a wonderful time working with horses and their people until I realized, oh, there was a reason why I spent all those years studying that particular topic it's because it was going to come up in my life and be very important that I knew what to do with that and how to address some of these things. So just getting back to that it's becoming one of those things that I have to address almost with every horse and owner that I come across. There's some level of it there and when we can clear that out, then the real relationship can start to get stronger and the bond can grow. And there won't be these things that are causing energetic blocks to that relationship and really experiencing that heartfelt, that communion that I talk about. So long story short, I get on this thing of like, how do I help horses with trauma? And I realized that it's much different than with humans that they don't hold on to things the same way we do. They are much easier, they let go of it much easier but we just give them permission. They go oh you mean I don't have to hold that. I'm like, not if you don't want to and they go oh, okay. I think it might be the very reason that people say the horse lacks of prefrontal cortex. So therefore it can't think which that's a whole nother topic I don't buy into it entirely, but at the same time, the lack of a prefrontal cortex causes that horse to be able to let go of things easier because I think they don't then ruminate about something the same way. You know, think about we get traumatized and what is our brain doing those through the whole thing and it thinks about all the anger and it just continues to think and think and analyze and do all these things that, which actually just solidifies that trauma even greater and I think horses experience a trauma. It gets stored in their body in some place in their body and when we can point that place out to them and ask them if they're ready to let it go, they go, oh, I didn't even notice it was there but yeah okay. I can let it go. But humans have to support that horse in a different environment, that doesn't create more trauma of the same type to fill back in again. So there's this really complex interaction that has to happen and, and knowledge about not just what is the horses trauma, but what triggers that trauma, what might cause it to reappear and take steps to make sure the environment is going to support the way that horse is going to move forward in its life without trauma. I sometimes see people, oh I took a class on trauma and now I can do all this work and it's like you have no idea how complex this really is and what all you have to know to do it in a way that's not harmful to the person or the horse that you can actually help resolve this. That's kind of my little spiel on it. There's not a lot of research on trauma and horses, because it wasn't all that long ago that most people believe that horses don't even have emotions. So they couldn't possibly experienced trauma. Right I mean to me, it's one of those things I can't even wrap my mind around that somebody would not believe that an animal has emotions. And that was again, getting back to, well they can't process an emotion because they lack a prefrontal cortex and so I don't know what they think, how that happens, but I went and said, you know, I thought about that for a long time when I would read these books about, well, it horses can't have this because look at the science. Okay. And what is my book science. We have to look at both of these things when we make any decision. Yes scientifically logically, that makes sense. But what I see and experience in my life is not congruent with what their findings were, why, what else could be going on. And so that's where I go into hmm. Well, how else could a horse experience or process and emotion, perhaps it's not in a Oregon or in the brain, the way that we do, maybe it's in a different state of consciousness. Maybe they actually process emotions through their heart because the hardest to place that processes emotions. So maybe that's how they do it. I don't know and I won't ever be able to prove how it is, but I know too much depth of my soul, I know they experience emotions. So I think it it's like a scientist. We need to kind of go outside of what we've been told and what we think is right and look at more possibilities because if we can't see it as a scientist, if we can't see it with our eyes, we tend to discount it. We discount anything we don't see, but what if you're an empath and you feel it, but you can't make that valid. Your feeling is not valid with science, right? So you get discounted because you felt something and you don't know how to quantify it. So this is where it gets into that murky place, where I walk in both worlds, I'm a scientist, but I'm not actual impact that feels and sees and experiences a world in a much different way than that. Just through my logical part of my brain and that's what I think is. There's parts of me that say people discount what I do, but I can only tell you what I see as a result to drive me forward, to do more. And perhaps someday we'll be able to figure out why it works in a more scientific way, but at this point, the results are what matters. The fact that I could do something each time with a horse, with trauma and see it be released, feel it, be released, know it's released, and then see that horse move forward in a different way and its life and its relationships with other animals and it's human. That's the validity. And so I kind of want to give people that freedom, perhaps, you know, cause there's this tendency that we're always saying, well, you have to follow the science, but you don't realize the science is limited because they only see what they're looking to see. They're only looking for what they expect to find. And if you have an engage other senses and experienced the world differently, you realize that there's other ways to feel an experiences world rather than just the science that can be measured. So that's kind of where I'm working from. Just so you know, I can't say 100% for sure. Everything that happens but I'm working from the science as my back ground and my foundation, but I'm infusing it with a whole bunch of spiritual and thinking outside the box and how does consciousness work and all of those things we don't really know. So I think that gives us that kind of really broad Palette from which to work, you know and draw and just move forward with this, with the intent, always of do no harm.

Ronnie: 16:49

As humans we like to see proof or we like to see something because that's how we've operated for so many years and it's the unseen, that's sometimes the hardest to explain, but as you've explained you feel it and then you see it. And that's like the old saying, show me and I'll believe it. And they say no, believe it and I'll show you it and it's funny cause I was having a conversation with Kathy today actually about something. And I know even though I do what I do, when I'm with the clients' horses and when I'm talking to clients and I can connect with animals that are no longer here. So I don't go search for them they come through if I'm with somebody but my head sometimes in certain scenarios wants to see proof before it allows me to say, oh, okay I'll meet you halfway here, I can see proof now. And that's when you get the conflict and I can feel it within myself. And it's like but I know this why am I doubting this? And sometimes I think it's because when you say words like this, not everybody wants to hear them or is ready to hear them and to step into that place, to speak, your truth is very vulnerable and putting yourself out there for all to see, and I'm doing that more and more each day. I've got friends and people that I've met through this amazing people and another lady, her name's Pat Cleveland, she was one of my first interviewees and she has a similar ethics to you. But she comes from a shamonic and other ways. So the language is more that way inclined, but she also has a scientific I'm not sure to what degree background. So she comes on that from both sides and she's passionate about what she does and she's trying to be heard. I think it's really important for people like pat and yourself to be seen, to be acknowledged for what you bring to this world and what you bring to the horses and what you bring to us, because it's a learning curve and knowledge is to be shared, but not to be used and abused or for your own gratification. And I say that lightly, because when you get excited about something, you want to tell people and you want to share because it's exciting, but you have to think about what does this mean? Am I in this moment? Or am I out there thinking, wow Look what I can do, look at what's happening. And it can be from an excited point of view, right? But if you're not grounded and you don't think of the bigger picture, then it takes you down a different routes. So staying grounded, staying humble and honoring the horse because the horse is our priority. We have to get there through the human, but it's the horse that we're working with. That is the core of the work that you do in the work that most people do bodywork as intuitive, energetic people. That's what they are there for. You know, they want to help the horse but they've got to sometimes get run the human. Before we go any further, we've got loads, more people, which is lovely. Jane she's a close friend of mine, she's from the UK and she's an energy worker. So she works with horses, with people and animals and her work takes on lots of different routes. And she always says that she goes in, but it's the energy working through her. She goes off to another place sometimes and it's the energy that's working through her. She's always very humble and she explains that to people. We've got Phyllis, these are probably your friends again Susie.

Susie: 20:41

Wonderful people that have found this place and maybe just looking for that validity that it's okay to be you it's okay. Hi, Jane I'm going to point Jane out because she's the reason my book found Warwick Schiller. She wanted to stay humble and quiet about it, but I'm going to call her out and say, thank you Jane. Oh my gosh from the bottom of my heart thank you.

Ronnie: 21:05

Thank you, Jane because if I had to listen to Warwick I would'nt have asked you and I'm still amazed that you said yes Susie. And there's Gail.

Susie: 21:15

Gail that's beautiful and I think what Gail just said is really key because there is no manual for this work. I would think that most people that are doing this would say the same thing that they're working through the energy and it comes through them and you're directed by the energy in the moment. And it's almost like you don't have conscious control of that. And I believe as we go into the horse world with this thing, we do, it's so different because it isn't a manual. It isn't based on step 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. It is based on principles from which you work and you do this and it's, it's very unsettling for people to go. What is your first step? I don't know and how do you help people with their horses if there's not a systematic way to do it? So all I can say to that is if you work on yourself And you become energetically coherent, and you know what your energy is, and you know what you're communicating through your energy. The need to follow some systematic training method is not necessary. I find that the things that I've done internally and the work I've done on myself and how I understand the energy, it makes it so easy to train a horse that it's almost like you wouldn't need them manual. I hate to say this, not to give anybody going, oh, you just do this and everything works out just perfectly. No, it takes years of knowledge and practice, but you realize how much our human brain tries to make things really difficult. And if they're difficult, then they must be worthwhile. I have showed people, some very simple things and they go, it can't be that simple. And I'm like, it is that simple. Once you have a foundation in yourself, it's that simple. And you I think, well, that'll put me out of business. As soon as everybody gets all the other piece and then they'll be able to do everything and they won't need all these different techniques and the manuals and the 52 steps you know it's all going to become really unnecessary. Once you build a relationship, you don't have to have all the other stuff. And that's gonna get me in a whole lot of trouble from all the people who are behaviorists. And it's like, yes, but it's stimulus response and all this and it's like, it can be partly. But it can also be relational and it can also be about a really simple way of communicating, like, okay well, let's go do this and the horse goes, okay, we'll that, cool. It's what I'm bringing to the table that attracts that horse to me or not. It's how I am that determines how that horse will be. And it doesn't matter how many steps I had before. I understood this to the degree I did now. I went through all those training things and they never worked the same way as I did for the person teaching them. And I always asked why, why doesn't this work for me? I did everything right. I would study those videos down to the nth degree. I'm moving in the right way. I'm doing all this stuff. I didn't realize that wow the part that they weren't telling me was the most important ingredient was me. It was getting rid of the doubt in me, getting faith, getting, a knowledge of myself and who I was and what I was thinking at any moment and what I was feeling, those were the important things. Then the rest just fell into place and I would encourage people, it's like most of these systematic training methods require us to be in our thinking part of our mind. And there's a lot of electrical activity that happens when you're thinking and when you're going, who, I wonder if it's this step, is it this step now? Should I be doing a better feel that foot there and I better make sure that one steps over here. That is what actually blocks it from happening. All of that thinking all of that analysis. And when you get into the flow with your horse, the mere thought precedes what happens and you realize like, why did he just do that and I just thought of it because you were connected energetically, he got your message. He said, How did you ask in a nice way? Cool. I'll do it. And again, I don't want people going out there and going, oh, I can just make a picture and get my horse to do anything. It's a little more complicated than that and it takes a lot of practice, but you can get to that point where it's very simple. I don't know what else to say about that other than, there's some things you need to do to work on yourself to get to that point. But once you get there, you realize like, oh my gosh, this just flows and that's what I want people to experience. If I got to get there and that's what really motivated me to teach it is that I experienced it. And I'm like, okay, what just happened? I want to replicate this feeling and this experience how, and that's what took me to the science of why it worked. And then I'm like, okay, so now knowing the science, how do I simplify this process for others? How do I get them to experience that same thing that they're wanting? And so that's kind of my purpose in life now, I guess, in my silver years of life.

Ronnie: 26:45

I think you've got the most beautiful face and your energy is young at heart and that's what I see when I look at you. I'm not just flattering you that's what I see. I was smiling when you was talking there because it's about being authentic, when you say about working on yourself. So please correct me if you feel I'm wrong, but from my point of view, from my own work, you, you have to be authentic when you're your trying to connect to your horse. So it's not like if I do this, I'm going to get this reward and it's not even like in words, but I'm not going to work on myself cause I don't want to go there. They know that and part of that working on yourself it's going to help you big time, because one, they want that as a species, they don't want you to carry that baggage because they know what it feels like, because quite often they're carrying it as well. They want you to feel free and to feel authentic in yourself, whether you're scared, whether your confidence, whether you're climbing mountains or little stepping stones, they don't care about that. They just want you to be authentic and true in that moment but that is the biggest growing experience that you can experience for yourself. And when you start working with your own mind and body, it's amazing because you can sense when your body is lying to you and you're saying something, but you know that, oh this is a bit uncomfortable, cause I can feel this. It's almost like you have two people in the same room. The physical and that their mind is spirit and they're all sort of, hang on I want to speak first. No you have your say it's my turn now. And they're trying to get extra air time. When you get them on the same page and you get them on side, it's like, Hey, okay, that could benefit me and you can play around with it, it doesn't have to be heavy duty stuff. But there are times when it can be that and you've just got to get through that because you the other side is so much better. And when you experienced that, you also know what your horses or your friends or your animals are going to feel like when they release what they need to do.

Susie: 29:01

That's beautifully but it also speaks to the fact that I get people who say, oh my gosh, I can't do this with my horse because I, I'm not perfect and, I have all this stuff going on and all I tell them is, you know what the horse just wants you to be truthful and tell them. I've had the biggest releases with people. It's like, just tell him what your struggles are, tell him what you're going through and that you're working on it and you recognize it and the horses over there having these big releases and actually acknowledging that, thank you for telling me it's yours and that you're working on it and I don't have to hold that burden for you. And I always tell them, tell him you don't have to hold my stuff for me. You don't have to hold any of my stuff. They will anyway but I give him that permission. Like I'm coming with this today and this is heavy on my heart. And a lot of times I'll step up to the plate and come in and say I'll help you today. And that's why if you think of a relationship, that's a human one where everybody has their struggles but the vulnerability and the ability to acknowledge, yes you have a struggle. And that person goes, Hey, I got you right now, I got ya. I'm not going to fix it for you but I got ya, I got your back. And that's what I feel like this relationship with our horses. We don't have to be perfect. We don't have to work for decades to make our inner world essentially perfect. Because then there'll be people thinking, oh my gosh, I can't do anything until I'm perfect. No, no we're all just working on ourselves. I have major struggles in my life a lot of times and I'm like, okay, that came up clearly it's for me to look at, and I need to figure out what to do about that, but it doesn't mean I stopped doing something. It doesn't mean that, oh then everything else I did in my life, or that I try to teach is invalid because I have a personal struggle once in a while and, or often, or whatever. I want people to be real and it's okay to be real and it's okay to be vulnerable and that's how we get through this life and learn our lessons. We came here to learn, I guess, is to acknowledge them, be vulnerable, know that we're not perfect and give ourselves a grace that we don't have to be perfect. We can make decisions that are wrong and not to beat ourselves up about it, but to go, okay, how do I not do that next time? I've seen the horses so forgiving and I'm sure you have too. I think that, it just feels like there's been so many people go I shouldn't be doing this cause I'm so broken and believe me, I've been at a place where I thought I was so broken, I would never be fixed, but my horses were always there and I was honest with them. I'm broken. I don't know if I'll be fixed, but I'm going to work on it.

Ronnie: 31:51

That was beautiful susie, thank you for sharing that. If you can explain when a horse is ready to release trauma, what would you do to facilitate that? So if you've got a horse that's cause there's different kinds of trauma, I mean you mentioned that all horses have trauma and nine definitely ask and actually last few days more has come to light from way back, way, way back. When you start that process you explained to the client, what you're going to do. Just give us a little brief detail of what sort of thing happens.

Susie: 32:25

One of the main pieces of, of this trauma work is our ability to be in the present and it gets back to why did I call my book sacred spaces? It's about going into that space where you don't judge anybody for what's going on and you have to be able to be in a space. And just essentially, I don't feel like I do anything other than create a space and hold it. And that's only my job is just to bring that energy and show people how to create that energy and then stay in it. And then it allows the horse to do what it needs to do. So essentially I'm not doing anything to the horse other than creating space for the trauma to be released and giving him permission to release it. It's funny when I first started this trauma release process, it was almost kind of systematic and I will often teach it in kind of a systematic way. However, I realized now that I don't have to do that, that I can just have an intention and it almost happens before I can even verbalize it or think it it's because that intention now follows me and is there, it's a hard thing to explain energetically but it's almost like I put out there that this is what I do and horses somehow know it. And it gives them that sense, like I'm going to come to this place with you and I'm going to be the best and hold the best I can for you to release whatever you need to and whatever you're ready to. And I think that's what, you know, we talked a little bit, you and I before about what are the ethics behind doing this work and part of what I do with horses is I don't go in there going, I'm going to just release all your trauma today. Guess what you get to let it all go. No, I'm going to let them experience what it's like to be in a safe space and they may not feel safe in a safe space because the trauma itself doesn't allow their body to say I'm ever safe. So I may go in and just be in that energy and let them experience it and then go away. And then I come back and I let them experience that again so that they can understand that it's not going to be something done to them. It is what it is, it's how I come into that space and because I come in with that intention that you can be safe and let go of stuff. Eventually they may be able to feel safe enough to let it go. And there are horses that are so traumatized that you will see them totally shut down so much that it's like, I'm not going to let go of anything, not going to let it go and I don't force anything. I let them make that decision because when they're ready, they'll come. So sometimes I may do a session and there's one little tiny release and that's all we get. And that's all I asked for or that all I expect, or I don't even want to say, ask for or expect it's all that I'm okay with all of that. I have to be okay with whatever they offer and not force more onto them or say, oh, look, I got one release now let's do a whole bunch because you know, look at him and he keeps going and going and he's releasing more and more. I caution people please that it can be very fun and interesting to watch a horse release things, but think of it in this way that that horse can then release too much of what it knew as far as its own self image, self sense of self and if you let go of too much of that trauma that was holding all of that sense of self together, that horse is left with nothing. It doesn't know who it is. And that's when we talk about people having a healing crisis. You did too much at one time and even if the horse is willing to do it, it's too much at one time. And so they're left like, I don't even know who I am and they can start having weird behaviors and they're just lost essentially, because you took everything they knew from him and then their, their shell of who they were. And it's like, well then now what do I do to create a foundation for who I now am after I let go of all my stuff and that is the reason why ethically I don't do very much at one time with a horse, I will work with the person and say, okay, now he's released that. How have you changed to support this new horse that you've got? It has to be this kind of give and take and actual monitoring of like, what is the environment? Is it creating that same trauma and it's going to go back in there or are you creating a new way of living. A new way of being a new environment for this horse. It supports a healthy trauma free horse. Okay so this is why a lot of times people will move back and forth. I'm just going to give this an example of sometimes dominant space training creates a lot of trauma in a horse, and then you go, oh, I'm going to do this other way. Okay with nice and nice and the horse is lost. It cannot make that big jump because what it knew is not the same as what you're asking. And so there's all these behaviors that come up and people go see that other way doesn't work. And it's the same principle that horse can't make that big a jump.. Like you think about women that are abused and you go, why don't they leave their husband? And they keep being abused, but they keep staying and they keep going back. It's because it's familiar. It's what their body knows, they don't have to wonder what might happen next. If we take those women out and we say, you're going to be okay, it's a big transition. Like they're going to need a lot of help to get a new type of life, attract different types of people into the life that aren't abusers. So for us to think that we can change a horse from, okay you're used to this kind of training now we're not going to do that. And think the horse is going to be okay. It's not, even though it seems nice, it's very uncomfortable for the horse. So this is another reason why I take this very slowly and we make changes and I make sure, like, you want to go to this different way, then quit with the dominant stuff, because that's going to create that horse to go back to where it was. And you're going to have the same problems. Stick with the dominance is that's what you want to do. Come to this other, if you want to change it and you want to help this horse to have a different type of life, he's going to probably be okay in a certain way to stay in what he knows cause I can see this happen a lot with horses. It's like this horse. There's an exercise that I do where I ask the horse to do nothing. And that's when I can see when the trauma starts coming up at this horse, what do you mean do nothing. This makes me really nervous, you mean you're asking me something, but you're not asking me something and you can see I'm just like lose it. Because I had no intention to do anything else and they go wait, I have to be doing something. And we have to start there. It's like, if this horse can't stand next to me and I ask him, actually not even asking me anything, but just put pressure on a lead rope, just the slightest bit. And he loses his marbles wow. This is a horse that has had every single step in his life controlled by a human. He doesn't know what to do if somebody isn't telling him every single thing to do. And how often I see this come up and it's heartbreaking to me and we can fix the horse from that. It takes a little bit of time and it takes people to really know themselves and understand how. They're going to resolve this problem and help this horse create a new type of life where he doesn't have to brace every time you ask him anything that he can do everything in relaxation, knowing that he's going to be supported and you're going to be there. So that's kind of in a nutshell.

Ronnie: 40:50

That was perfect susie thank you. I was mesmerized I was really listening. Because some of the words that you were saying, I thought, yeah that makes perfect sense. I knew what you was talking about but with a bit more depth. I think that's why it's important for people to work. It's a continual thing, so you're always working on yourself. You never get to a point, you think, oh, I'm done now. So why would it be any different for an animal, it's no different because you might have facilitated a place where the horse can let go, but something else might happen. And if you're not changing, as you said, what you're doing or more about what you're doing with yourself, how you're seeing yourself, then that's going to creep back in, in another form. Cause sometimes somebody will say, I've had this done to my host and it's come back again. I like to say, well, actually that thing hasn't come back again but another thing that looks like it has come back again. So once that's gone, it's gone the same as when we work with ourselves, there are layers and between each layer, there is more layers and it feels the same. But it can't be the same because you've released it and when you work in, you know that, but this is sometimes when you get confusing, why does it feel the same is because it's deeper and it's similar and it's no different for the animals that we work with.

Susie: 42:10

I think it it's like what I say is not what people don't already do for the most part that are, are working from this heart space and doing this work and. Again I just want to give a shout out to them and say I see it and I understand and I'm supporting from here. I think at the time I went on a trip across the U S and I think I spent about two and a half weeks and I would see different horses and on my drive home, I was just overcome by the enormity of the problem. And I thought there's just no way in my lifetime that I can possibly make a dent in, in this problem that I, all these problems that I see. But I think that the dent it was taken out by more and more people coming in and doing valid work with this and doing their pieces and bringing this knowledge to the forefront and that it's okay. It's okay to say these things that used to be not okay. I mean I tried to say these even four or five years ago, and people would roll their eyes at me and with not only disgust and disdain, but totally just dismissive. Like I said, I could write an article for your magazine, which was all about this area. And it's like, we don't talk to you and I thought, boy this has opened up recently in a big way. This is wonderful. I can see, like finally, there's this little crack in, it opened up and now this information and the people that are doing this are gaining more attention and people are gravitating to them more because they're seeing that the other ways are not helping and they're not working and what else can we do? So I just want to say to everybody doing it, I embrace it and embrace what you're doing. And I thank everybody for being brave because I think it does take bravery to go against the norm and what everybody believes is true and I was never strong enough to do it before. I don't know what switched in my life. I think you hit a place where you just don't care anymore. You've been put down so many times that it's like, so show me something I haven't seen before do something to me that I haven't felt before and just go in your own truth and walk in that place and say, you know what you believe what you want, but I'm going to keep saying this because sooner or later somebody will hear it and it will help somebody in their horse or somebody in their human relationship. I just want to give people that, cause I feel like I was such a chicken for so long in my life that I didn't push it more. And that I always backed down when somebody said, oh, I don't believe you. And I would go home and I would go back in my shell and go, God, there's just no point, you know, to keep going but there is. I will keep doing this. I will find a way. And I'm just thankful for Warrick Schiller and all these other people like you having these podcasts and getting this information out, that's how we do it from that place, that grassroots place, where we talk and we talk about our experiences and other people go well, that worked for you and they go, yeah, we'll try this and it's all going to be safe. It's going to be okay

Ronnie: 45:40

That's the beauty of your group because people that are just read the book, like I said earlier, they've gone out and had a play with it and it's worked and they're excited about it because they've done, as they say very little and they're surprised it worked. And the thing is for my own experience, again, my work and my personal it, it changes. And when you're using your sensitive side, your intuition, whatever you want to call it, it's like a muscle. The more you use it, the stronger it gets and when I say stronger, I mean the subtle ness is more visible and where you get to, as you said earlier, you don't even have to really think about the intention it's there because you've used it so much that the energy is already forming, before it gets to your brain, it's out there. It's the same with anything you do. The more you get in touch with that feel and trusting and play around with it, the easier it comes along. And when I say easy, it doesn't mean you don't learn the next little bit, because. Yes, I'm an animal communicator and I love what I do. But as with most people, when it's your own horse, you have your own baggage. You have your own agenda sometimes even if you think you haven't, there's always an agenda, even if it's just, I want to be close to my horse, that's an agenda sometimes. And I've noticed after reading your book and interacting with people like yourself more and doing the podcasts and the interviews that I'm more consciously aware of what I'm doing with my horse. For an example, if I see that she's wanting to look somewhere else because there's a certain area where she is and if the wind changes, she's a little bit more distance and I look at that and I don't like it because I feel that she's uncomfortable or she's worried. So it's not like a conscious feeling, and I can catch myself doing it. And the last week I've stopped myself in my tracks, even if she doesn't want to use her shelter and she's out in the wind and the rain, if that's what she wants to do, then I've just got to be, that's ok, that's fine. I've almost got to let go of that, wanting to look after her. In areas that I could do and I have to do that. I had to keep myself in check. So our conversations I'm learning more or adding into what I already know. So it's even better the next bits even better. Because when you catch yourself slipping back, Then you can remember to bring yourself back into center, back to focus, back to balance. That's life, that's learning, I don't see it as a negative. I have a moment. I get mad with myself and then I go, okay that was then now it's now because I know horses do not want that because when she goes away, you're too in your head, I'm moving away. So I know that. You know how far you've come when you recognize, when you slip back into that old road and it can be a few seconds but even that can make a difference if you stay in there too long. And that's playing around with the thoughts, the energy and what you talk about in your book, Suzy.

Susie: 48:55

I think you said it perfectly and again just to reiterate, it's okay to be human. The striving to be perfect is actually a problem and I think many of us has suffered from that. Like, we'll, I'll get attention if I'm perfect. If I hide would I am and I look perfect on the outside, it'll be okay and it's not okay. I feel like now there's times I'm so goofy or I think why would anybody listen cause I'm just kind of goofy and then I think, no, but why are we not allowed to be who we are? Why do we pretend put up a mirror, be something we're not. And we're taught to do that in our society is like, and, oh, well, in this situation, you have to make sure you're like this, you know, you be professional in this situation and then you can only be goofy and your other personal life. Well, why can't you just be you? That's my question. Why are we just so controlled that we have to put on this facade everywhere we go. And I'm kind of like, you know, this is what you get the horse doesn't seem to have a problem with me, whether I'm goofy or not Duffy, the more serious I am, they go here right we don't like you like that, we like you to just real. So just give yourselves permission, like you're saying to make a mistake to not be perfect, I feel like sometimes I'm just muddling through, believe it or not, I'm just muddling through life. Just go in with the flow and figuring out everything as it comes and I'm doing the best I can and say, I did the best I could at that time, that's all we can do. Before we run out of time and I know this was one of our important topics, if we can kind of flip it just a little bit back to the trauma piece, which was about why don't I have videos out there showing this process and it gets to this really sticky place where I'm going to tell you, I consider every single trauma piece that I do with a horse and their person as if it were a private counseling session or a therapy session. And I would never want to put up a therapy session between a person and a person or a person in their family and have everybody view it and go look at what this family went through and look at what they're working on and have everybody watch that. I feel like it's very sacred work that this trauma is only between the person and their horse and I may sometimes film it for that person so she can go back and look, but it's not for everybody to watch and I feel like if I put it out there for other people to watch a horse, having a trauma release that I've actually violated the trust of that horse. And that I've said, Hey we're going to display this for everybody to watch. We're gonna let everybody watch you work through your trauma. I have a hard time sometimes it clinics. We usually have a small group and we will have trauma and we'll work through it. But I think that's everybody in that space with the same intention and the same love and, and support for that horse. But that's one of the things I have a hard time with is if I see people go, oh, look at all these yarns and I'm doing all this work and look at this horse, let go of their stuff and at some point, part of me, it just it hits me, it's like, wow, that that's really tough to think about. Be vulnerable, but actually to show everything to everybody and I'm just never going to do it. Even though people have said, show us how you do the trauma release. No, you can come and learn it from me, but I'm not going to show it in a video and that's why.

Ronnie: 52:37

I totally understand and before we went live, we had a little chat about this didn't we and I asked you about when students are learning, they sometimes video things cause that's what they want to do and they want to understand and you said that the horses know the difference. They know when they're helping the human side and they will release what they need to release. But in their personal space, they will release what they need to do for themselves. And I think if you're doing that work, you're in that moment, you're not thinking about this will look good on film. But we also understand the excitement of it, especially if you're learning you get excited because you think, oh, crikey, or even yourself, it's your horse, my horse is releasing the I'm so pleased. I want to show somebody cause it's genuine and it's excitement, but there comes a line that you don't want to go past that. And as you said, if you as a human and you saw an advert on the TV for therapy and they showed you somebody breaking down, I certainly wouldn't want to go there. But we don't think like that sometimes we don't think rationally and actually sometimes it's as simple as how would you feel? Yes they're a horse but how would you feel? And it's being respectful for another being That's on this planet at the end of the day, so that was really well said Susie, so thank you.

Susie: 54:02

I think you said it better than I said it but you know, I think we all say it in the way we say it, and I think that's important too. It's like, you can hear words and then you can hear someone else speak them and then one of those will hit you in a different way. Each one will hit you in a different way or impact you in a different way. And so I think this is what's really neat about you and other people that are getting this word out and interviewing people is that the more time people hear something and hear it in slightly different ways, the more impact it will make and the more it will infuse into their body. And they'll be able to think about it in deeper ways and this is all about. It's like, don't just hear it from one person but hear from many, but each person with their own take on it.

Ronnie: 54:50

Yeah and each person will be drawn to who they resonate with. So somebody on a scientific side will be drawn to that sort of viewpoint. Somebody on a spiritual will be drawn to that. That's why I mentioned you and pat Cleveland, in fact the more you spoke, definitely, cause she wanted to hide away because she'd got judged and yeah, she had quite an experience and she said, I don't want to do this. And I thought, but you're needed, you're needed. And she comes from her understanding and her growth. You will be attracted and drawn to whoever you feel is going to fit you. And then as your needs change, yes, you might be drawn to somebody else because what feels right today might not feel quite right tomorrow. And it doesn't mean that was wrong. It's just that it's changed slightly because you're more aware of yourself and you're more aware of the energy that surrounds you and other people's energy. And I believe that words carry a vibrational energy and the intention is the strong part of it and it's not verbal, but as humans we hear the verbal and we see the people and that's what we're drawn to, but it's the vibration of what that carries is the key to unlock something for somebody and it might be they're starting in their life that might be the next Dr Susan Fay or Pat or Jane or Kathy or myself, we want to create a spark. So some meetings, okay. I'm going to look into this and see where that takes them. But people have got to be able to have a voice and somewhere to be heard for that to happen and it's happening more and don't be afraid of what other people think that is the biggest thing, that's the hardest thing. I still have my moments and I will, as everybody does. In fact, yesterday, I felt like I'd got imposter syndrome. I think how I'm working is changing because that's what came through for me. I sat there, thought that's two horses I've seen. So what is that telling me and I think it's because. I'm being shown that my work needs to evolve now because I'm comfortable. I got to a comfortable space now, but I need to evolve a bit more. And that's what I feel is happening. I don't know where and I don't know how much, but that's what I'm feeling in my energy. That's when you get more, about who you are, you can tell when a change is happening and you can adjust and think about things rather than just think, what is the matter with me? Why me in this mood, you know, why am I thinking these negative thoughts? It's just to show you, look, just pay attention we're speaking to you. Yeah. So anybody got any questions for Susie or myself that you'd like to ask? And while they're thinking about it, do you want to talk about some plans that might be happening this year?

Susie: 57:46

I might and this is all in the theoretical planning stages and depending on what happens worldwide and all that, there's a possibility I can come and see a whole bunch of people in the UK and visit there and just go around and have more connections and show you some of the things that I do and then it would be just a beautiful experience, I think and I know from speaking to a lot of people there that they feel a little bit isolated sometimes because there's some little pockets of people all over England. That say, well, I still feel like I'm judged. I still feel like it's not okay and they're, they're a little bit tentative about doing some things and it's like, oh, would it be good to have more community, more people that you can talk to and and support each other in doing things maybe a little bit different than everybody else does and feel like you're just out there flooding on your own. I love the idea everything I do is about building a relationship, not just with horses, but with people. And that's why my clinics are really small is because there's no point in me trying to do this kind of work. If it's just to get numbers of people to come, I'm looking for very specific people that get attracted to this work. And I know they're going to follow through and add their own little spin to it and integrated into other areas of their life and that's really what the point is, is that I go and we're creating this bigger group.

Ronnie: 59:23

So it's at the planning stage at the minute.

Susie: 59:25

It would be July or so if we do it

Ronnie: 59:29

And it's smaller groups of people, it's not a big venues. It is small groups of people, that can facilitate. I think it's one of the ladies here is trying to organize that who we're going to have chat with later when we finished the live and then you can promote more about it.

Susie: 59:44

It's so funny because a lot of when I talk it's really about, I wouldn't call it channeling you'll notice that when I start on on some tangent that a change. You can guys can notice this. I'm sure. If you watch me talk a lot of times, it's like, I don't know what I'm going to talk about. And then it's almost like I let it go and it just starts coming, but it almost like comes out really fast and I can't really stop it. And a lot of times it's how I do a clinic. Just so you guys know, because I've got to hold space and be in that sacred space, which is a certain brainwave pattern. Talking in effect, we'll take somebody out of that and put them into the beta that higher brainwave. So just moving and talking, we'll create more beta brainwaves. So I've had to try to figure out a way, how do I stay in very low, alpha, two beta brainwave and talk at the same time. So it's almost like a stream of consciousness. So sometimes it seems like I'm talking really fast it's because if I stop talking, then I'm back in my logical brain and it's going, oh, don't say that. Or here's how you got to say it. It just ends up being a stream of consciousness. So this is an interesting phenomenon with brainwaves and what things we can do within each brainwave state and so I find it fascinating, just watching myself, like wow, you just a motor mouth and you just keep talking and it's a weird, like you are such an introvert and you didn't even say three words in all of high school. So how are you now this, it just keeps coming out of you and it's always been there but I have to be in a certain place and then it just flows.

Ronnie: 1:01:24

I understand what you mean, it's similar, if you want to communicating. I'm just seeing if we've got any questions, here's one from Jennifer. I need guidance on working with two horses, one in the arena, and one in a paddock. I find when I worked with one, my mind is on the other as well.

Susie: 1:01:39

That is a good one and I've seen this happen many times, so you can put an intention out that each horse piggybacks on the other. So whichever one you're going to be interacting with, primarily, you can give permission to the other horse to be connected to and taking in whatever they need from the interaction. And so that way maybe that can help you stop thinking like, oh, I've got to pay attention specifically to that other horse. No, you can create this entire envelope of, I know this sounds weird, but you really can include everybody in and then just put your main focus on the horse and just with the intention that whatever you're doing with that horse you're working on will, if it's appropriate, will be received by the other horse in that same area. They will know they'll come in. They know what they need. So often I'm doing one horse and I'll watch other horses come and go and have releases on their own and so if you just think of it as I'm just in this energy and whoever needs, it gets whatever, is there, it can maybe help you stay more focused on that. One of the things I find fascinating with horses is that if I'm doing a trauma release and I've got me and the owner and the horse, what's interesting the trauma release process will actually create a real strong connection, the horse with us, but what's interesting. The horse will usually, if we're standing together, this person and I, the horse will come and split the middle of us, like he'll walk up into the middle. It will acknowledge me. It will acknowledge the person or vice versa, you know, whichever they do first, but it's almost like that horse goes, I'm here in this space, but I know you're here and I know you're here and I'm going to acknowledge that I am paying attention to both of you. So if we think of that, that we can be in that space and acknowledge everything else that's in that space that we connect to it, you know. That answered the question. I don't know.

Ronnie: 1:03:35

I think he did. How about a quick stop over in Germany?

Susie: 1:03:39

Here's the really cool thing about Germany. I have a, this sounds so archaic, I have a pen pal and this is really funny because we started writing and we are at 50, some years of writing to each other. Wow and she lives in bot Humberg Germany, and I've lived in the states and we have written and stay connected for 50 plus years and so that'd be a perfect excuse to go over and visit with her.

Ronnie: 1:04:08

So there you go, Laura. Just looking at the questions. That's quite a good one.

Susie: 1:04:13

People watching you. This is something that has taken me a long time. And, and at first I didn't, I only work with a person and a horse because it's so difficult to stay in that multifocal first place, you know, you're, you're essentially doing that thing. I tell you in my book not to do is like multitask. However, there is a part of your brain in a brainwave state that you can actually multitask in, which is where I go to, but it has taken years of practice to be in get there. And so all I can say is I'm gonna work with you this week, so we can talk further about this particular topic. And I wish I could give somebody the instantaneous ability to do it but it's just like if you were going to lift weights and you started out in first, you could only do a few pounds and you're really struggling. And then as you practice in practice, the more you do it pretty soon, it's like, oh, that's so easy. Now I can lift look how much I can lift. So it's kind of the same way with your brain. If you can find that space and stay there. I tell people I don't care if you found that space and you can only stay there for a second, that's a start next time, maybe two seconds in you, you build up and as your body gets used to what it feels like in that state. So I work a lot on feeling. I have people like find that space and then know what it feels like in their body and really immerse themselves in all the senses about how does that feel in your body. And then when they want to recreate that space, I only have them think of that time they were there and their body and their brain starts to go, oh, I know that and it takes you back. So there's some different tricks to bring yourself to that space faster and to stay longer. There used to be research that people can't stay in that flow state. This is essentially where I'm at. If you research the flow or the zone, that's where I'm at. And there used to be research saying that people can only sustain that for a very short amount of time. And that's where I'm going. Well, science, I don't think you know everything because essentially I can stay in that space now, because I've practiced for extended period, like days at a time. But it's going to take you being there first for a little bit, and then going I got knocked out and then going back and then you get knocked out. And so it was where I went through, like, okay. I found it, oh I'm not there again. Oh I found it, I'm not there again. And it just dedication to like I'm going to just keep practicing, just keep practicing. The only thing I can tell people is, yeah, take some time to train your brain, to go to those spaces and stay there. But once you have trained it, even though that training was hard and difficult, if you find it and you can sustain it, it makes the biggest difference in your life. You will never regret the time that you spent training yourself to be there. And there's lots of ways to do it. If you've listened to me, I don't do traditional meditation. You can use that as a way to get there. There's some other ways just like, there's not just one way to your destination. There's lots of different pathways. And you have to find the one that works for you. Some people love to do meditation and they, they should continue doing meditation. I just never had that luxury of time that I could spend just sitting doing nothing. And so I had to find other ways to find that same type of experience without traditional meditation.

Ronnie: 1:07:55

Yeah, I was just thinking if I'm talking with a client and I've gone to see the horse and you know, the chatting we're talking about something, or would you say having a conversation? It's almost like the horses ears. You know, when they're listening because they're thinking, okay, I'm going that way, but I'm listening what's going on here. As I'm chatting to the human I'm aware of my senses have switched on here and there's this, oh, something's coming through now and the animal energy is coming through. So I'll say, oh, hang on a minute I need to stop now because the animals communicate with me or I'll be aware of what's coming because it might be showing me something in my body or saying something but you get used to that, that's with practice. It's something that naturally happened, the intention when you put the intention out to the universe that this is what I'm trying to achieve. It will show you but you have to acknowledge it. And only way I can describe that is if you're having a conversation and say you're in a room somewhere, or you're in a bar and you're chatting with a friend. I haven't been to bar for years and you're chatting with a friend and it's Valentine's day to day, isn't it. It's very quiet, there's nobody there but you get a feeling that somebody just walked in behind you, you know that, oh, there's somebody behind me feeling. Yeah. It feels like that. That's what it feels like. So if you're wanting to understand from that point of view, there's a feeling that somebody is behind you or somebody just come in, that is the energy saying I'm here. So you can pay attention to that and to that at the same time, just as the horses do, they are not focused on one thing because they're still listening for danger, predators, whatever they want to think about and the more you acknowledge it and say, I felt that, and it might go away with a few seconds. The next time it comes along, you'll pay more attention to it, but you can still focus on what you're doing and it gets stronger and stronger. So you have two communications, two energetic forms. You can speak and you're channeling. But you're also listening to the horse, you're doing that way. I'm not sure if that is similar but that's my perspective. Not as easy as if there's like me and the person, probably like you and why I kept the clinic's down to a smaller sizes and why people have to kind of be in alignment with what I'm doing and is because at the beginning there were large groups sometimes and I could feel that person, I could know exactly what that person was thinking in the back row.

Susie: 1:10:31

That's not working, that's not good. That would just start to infiltrate in and it would draw just a little bit of my attention off that I had to go, okay. I got to block that somehow and I would go home, because I had a block that I would be really, really tired when I would be done, because it took a lot of energy to block that other stuff and hold that out. And I thought I can't do this if I'm that tired, if that happens. So once I eliminated these large groups and it's just small, I actually feel more energized because everybody's in alignment and I'm not having to block energy out and you expend some amount of my energy to keep them out there and kind of in same thing, it's in that flow state, I'm not expanding my own energy. I'm not sending it anywhere, nor am I bringing any in and holding it. So it's almost like it comes in, it goes out, so that I'm not being depleted or expanding anything or taking anything on, nor am I sending any of mine to anybody else. So therefore I'm not depleting. So that's really a key to a lot of this energy stuff, is don't send it. Don't send yourself out there. All you have to do is send the intention out there. The energy will take care of itself. It's been one of the things that have saved me for doing this work. I have a motto what's yours is yours and what's mine is mine. That's all I put out in the intention. Although there are times when and you've probably experienced is you get a dump on you. Like, wow that just like hit me like a, and it's like wow I thought I was okay and I just got dumped on. And so you have to go and clear that out and be recognizing that that can happen. But if you're feeling tired after doing this, yes it is tiring. Let me just go backwards because when you first practice this with your brain, your brain gets exhausted. Like people go to my clinic is it's like, I'm a totally exhausted. And it's like, yes because just like, if you lifted weight, you would be tired and you would be sore if you hadn't done it before. But as you build up your strength, it doesn't fatigue you so much cause you're not using so much energy to stay in the space and it's coming more in the flow. So just be okay with feeling tired there, but just checking with yourself that you're not giving somebody else your energy or the animal, your energy and that's why you're depleted.

Ronnie: 1:12:57

Thank you Susie. Oh we got an lady from Australia.

Susie: 1:13:00

Hi oh I know Sue. Yeah, thank you. That makes perfect sense. So that was an answer to her question earlier.

Ronnie: 1:13:08

I'm just making sure I'm not missing anybody.

Susie: 1:13:10

Oh, this is a really good one, it is completely different than Masterson. A lot of people have said, oh, you do Masterson method because I mentioned bladder Meridian. Okay I mean the bladder Meridian is from chinese medicine and it's just a governing Meridian in the body. So I just use it as the communicator for the body and letting the horse know I'm going to work with them. So let me just really briefly say the difference between Masterson and me. I'm going to work at a distance all the time. If I'm looking for spiritual or emotional triggers or trauma, I am never going to put my hand on that horse ever okay. I'm going to be at a distance, probably at least 10 feet, if I'm doing it remotely, thousands of miles. So here's the other thing. From my background in the human world and trauma trauma, like a mental, emotional, physical trauma gets stored in the body somewhere and each time there's another traumatic event. It tends to go to where it got stored. So just like us, we have a favorite place in our body where we store our trauma, our attention. And you can notice that every time you get angry, you can feel it in the same spot. This is essentially what's happening with our horses. So I want to release the emotional charge on a particular area of the body where that horse holds its tension or trauma and have that release. Because if you do not release the emotional charge and it keeps going to that same spot again and again each time the horse experiences a similar event, eventually that's going to turn into a physical problem. Okay so that's why I'm going to back up from Masterson and work at the level before. So if you don't ever release the emotional charge. You can do all the bodywork and keep doing the bodywork and keep finding the same thing over and over again, because it never got released emotionally. I love Masterson work and in no way saying it's not valid or anything like that, I'm just saying I'm going to go in and look for emotional charges so that hopefully when they do Masterson and all that, that it's going to have a greater chance of holding for a longer amount of time because that emotional charge isn't getting activated again and again. And you can probably notice that even in people too, it's like I keep having that same injury at the same place. Well that's where your body decided to put all your attention. So it weakens that part of your body, so now it's more susceptible to physical injury or disease. So I think that's in a nutshell the differences I'm also in my trauma release process, I don't do it in the absence of the owner. I would never do a trauma release if the owner weren't there because it would make no sense for me to do it because of the shared trauma and the fact that I'm asking the owner and the horse to make a pack together that neither one of them has to hold each other's stuff. And that owners giving the horse permission to let it go if they're ready. And that owner is there to find out what needs to change in that horse's environment to support them not going back to the old way or having that trauma reappear. So there's really lots of differences. And the other really important part is usually. Masterson, you hold when you find the place in the body, you hold through the release, you're hold that spot through the release process. Me if I find I will turn my body away, I will merely look at a spot, I see it, I immediately take my attention off it because you can't release something emotional, if somebody is staring at you going, would you release that tension in your back? And then they stare at your back. And you're like, now I'm really self-conscious and I was even worse. I will just put my attention on that spot and then let them release it. If they're ready. I want to take all the energy and the focus off of that spot so that they can then have the choice and the ability to release it without feeling like I'm expecting something or looking for something. So it's just the difference of working between a physical and an emotional space. On that. So yeah there's similarities but mostly differences. Thank you Jennifer yeah. It's hard for people to know, because they see similarities, they think things are the same and again, it looks the same maybe, but yeah this is when we go, okay. What is the reason behind what you're doing and what are you trying to accomplish? And then you'll see why Masterson does it the way he does it and I do it the way I do it. We're working from two different intentions. So they cannot be the same if we have two different intentions.

Ronnie: 1:18:08

We've got a question from a Dee you ask the horse what it needs.

Susie: 1:18:15

When I start something, I just tell the horse, I'm going to let your body talk to me. And it's funny they will show us what they need. I find that I don't have to ask a whole lot of questions because a lot of times the initial release thing can be traumatizing in itself for a horse. Like now I'm on the spot or what are you going to do to me, what's happening. And I let him just get a flavor for the energy and maybe they have a release or something and they get to feel like, well, she didn't chase me down, she didn't tie me up, she didn't make me stay here. I got to move in and out. Okay. Okay I can trust that. At some point during that process I'm watching very carefully like I may start where a normal place, just like humans, we hold it here in our shoulders a lot. Well, horses will hold it up in their pole a lot, so you can generally find some tension up in that spot. So I may just start there as an easy way to ease into the energy and letting them know what it's like, instead of going to that's the worst part right there, isn't it? Yeah. Okay. That could be harder for them. I want to ease them into the process. So I started the lightest place and so they go, Ooh. Okay. And then what's interesting. A lot of times I'll watch them and I'll see where they point to, or they may actually position their body once they understand what I'm doing, they will come over and position their body to a certain spot and go, would you just do that one? And then you go, okay. And so it can be very interactive then if you're watching and noticing the horses where that place is. I think it's just in the intention that I'm here to help you. That's the thing, I wish I made it really complicated and then you had to learn a whole bunch of stuff, no it's, it's very intuitive and you just go with the flow and go, huh I think that horse told me it's over there. Let me check, oh, okay yep it was so then he goes, oh thanks for noticing. And then they go and release it. It's a pretty fascinating process actually and quite gratifying. And, and like you said before it's funny cause I go, okay just keep your composure and then when I see a horse with a big release, I'm like, yay and it's like never old, it's like, oh gosh this is why I do this.

Ronnie: 1:20:20

It's confirmation that oh yeah that was right, it's working because we like to see visual things don't we sometimes more often than not. Dee's said that, thank you, makes sense. That's brilliant. Right I think if you want to talk about anything else but if not I think we'll wrap it up.

Susie: 1:20:41

I was just looking at the time. It's like, oh my gosh, it seems like time just went by really fast.

Ronnie: 1:20:45

I don't mind and it's lovely because people have got to ask some questions. Going to pop you out shortly, but before you go, I just want to tell people you're going to be doing a chat with the Josh, so that should be exciting, we haven't got a date for that. So I'll let you know when that's gonna happen. We talked about the trip to the UK, so as soon as everything's settled, I'll put a note on as well. Yes Josh Nicole. I was going to add it into, but I didn't want to interrupt you. I was having a blond moment, so I do apologize. Okay obviously you picked up on that. It's you and Josh Nicole. Oh my goodness and the trip to the UK soon you've got dates and more detailed we can talk about that, can't we? Anything you want to see, I remembered your name.

Susie: 1:21:33

Well thank you. That feels good and it's really funny though. Just as a side note here, cause I tell people sometimes at the clinic, well, when I'm working in that space, I don't necessarily remember things or your name. So please don't take offense at it because I'm in a place where words don't matter. It's just about feelings and it's a strange thing. Cause we really rely on words and in that space, working with the horse, it's such a beautiful thing when there's no words necessary. Just to think about a word sometimes makes me really fatigued. That's why I say they have to just be on their little roll coming out. Otherwise if I have to stop and think about it, it's like that's too much trouble. Cause actually sometimes if you've gone to that place, you realize there's no words to describe it. No human words can describe this space.

Ronnie: 1:22:23

Which I'm sure a lot of people have felt, but maybe don't realize they have. Those moments when out for leisurely ride and you feel your horse wants to go that bit faster and you go into a canter and you think, oh my God, I feel like I'm just part of the horse. That lovely feeling. Oh, you're setting a field and your horse comes and just puts nose near you or just says, hi, I'm here, I can hear you. Especially sometimes if you're having a bit ofa day. Toots it tends to push me over. I'll be doing something I'll poo picking and I've got my head down, I'm doing stuff and I feel this bump for the back of my back. And I go, okay, sorry. And she's like, hello, you're here, not there. She saying drop your thoughts and just be present and it's quite funny. And then she'll go off and she looked at me and go, okay, I've got the message. So we've all experienced it at different times in a different way and it's something that we can all do as well, which is brilliant because that's what you promote. That's what you are telling people that this is something that everybody can learn. But just be patient and look for the smallest thing within yourself as well and don't get beat up if you think, oh, I'm not getting this because that's a block that's, you know, that's just a box straight away and just acknowledge what you notice and knowledge a change in the energy. Acknowledge something you see in your horse. When I say change in energy, it's almost like the birds are tweeting, there's lots of activity then all of a sudden it goes really, really quiet. And it's like a storm's about to come and it's so peaceful. That's the bit, that's the sweet bit that you think yeah that's the connection. Anyway Susie I think we're better wrap this up now. I'm going to pop Susie out and then do you want to say bye.

Susie: 1:24:15

I do I was going to say yeah, I just want to say thank you for everybody that is here and that supports all of this that we are all trying to do. And we are gaining in numbers. So I appreciate everybody and appreciate coming together and I appreciate Ronnie doing these kinds of things because it does bring more awareness. So. I will say goodbye and thank you.

Ronnie: 1:24:46

An amazing lady even I get star struck if that's the right word or tongue tied, as you notice and forget things. So yeah Susie and Josh Nichol going to do a joint interview. There's also competition going to be in there but need to be present to be in competition. I'll explain more about that when we've got a date set, so that should be exciting, I'm really looking forward to that. Thank you everybody, really appreciate your comments. It's lovely for Susie and for myself too, it's nice. Once again, thank you so much for your support, go play and have fun with your horses. Thank you very much, take care and bye for now.