Equine Voices Podcast

Interview with Karen Rohlf - Dressage Naturally

February 26, 2022 Ronnie King Episode 37
Equine Voices Podcast
Interview with Karen Rohlf - Dressage Naturally
Show Notes Transcript

Interview with Karen Rohlf.
I was very pleased to have the opportunity to interview Karen Rohlf from Dressage Naturally.
She's humble lady with a warmth about her and such a wonderful smile too.

It was a pleasure to hear, in Karen's own words, how her life changed for the better, onto a different  path bringing her wealth of knowledge from the horse world and beyond.

Karen is very well known for her holistic approach towards horse and rider.

I hope you enjoy this podcast with Karen as much as I did making it.
So sit back, relax and I hope you enjoy this episode.

Karen Rohlf.
Karen Rohlf, author and creator of Dressage Naturally, is an internationally recognize clinician who is changing the equestrian educational paradigm. 

She teaches students of all disciplines and levels from around the world in her clinics and the Dressage Naturally virtual programs.

Karen is well known for training horses with a priority on partnership, a student empowering approach to teaching, and a positive and balanced point of view. 

She believes in getting to the heart of our mental, emotional, and physical partnership with our horses by bringing together the best of the worlds of dressage and partnership-based training.

Karen’s passion for teaching extends beyond horse training.
For The Love Of The Horse:
Transform Your Business Seminar and Mastermind/Mentorship programs are a result of her commitment to helping heart-centered equine professionals thrive so that horses may have a happier life in this industry.

https://dressagenaturally.net/
https://www.facebook.com/DressageNaturally.KarenRohlf/
https://www.instagram.com/dressagenaturally/

https://www.facebook.com/equinevoices.co.uk
Interview: video version
https://youtu.be/m-fwr0h870A

Video version (alongside applicable podcasts) can be viewed on facebook and YouTube.
https://www.facebook.com/equinevoices.co.uk
https://www.youtube.com/@equinevoicesuk
https://www.instagram.com/equinevoices.uk

Contact Ronnie.
mailto:equinevoicesronnie@gmail.com


Ronnie:

Welcome to Equine voices, my name is Ronnie and I'm your host for this evening and tonight's special guest is Karen Rohlf and she can introduce herself and tell you a little bit about who she is and what she does and how horses influenced and shaped her life, but also about her intuition, how that's guided her and helped to make decisions and brought her to where she is today. So without further ado, it is my greatest pleasure to introduce Karen.

Karen:

Hello,

Ronnie:

Hi Karen and welcome. So if you'd like to introduce yourself.

Karen:

Sure so my name's Karen Rolf and my business is called dressage naturally. And that is a result of my combination of my experience as a dressage professional and then my immersion into natural horsemanship or more partnership based training. So what I focus on is helping students and their horses enjoy the process of learning to move in harmony, by creating stronger partnerships and healthy biomechanic.

Ronnie:

Thank you, that was lovely. So I don't know everything about you just know. You've crossed my path on Facebook. I have seen you on there quite a few years, and I've seen you on the internet and I know a little bit about you but it was through Warrick's interview that I got to know a little bit more and your intuition and your guidance and how your life changed. So would you mind, explained a little bit about where you was before, you was an international dressage competitor, a trainer. If you'd like to describe who Karen was then and then we'll go into where she is today.

Karen:

Yeah I think where we need to start as I started out just like really horse crazy girl. So you know, I started out as a backyard rider silly little horse in my backyard with my best friend doing that and then through a series of accidents, I ended up becoming a dressage professional just cause I had done well competitively and even though I was in university trying to do some other real real career people kept paying me to ride. So it started out as just horse, crazy girl with no really ambitions, except I love horse and then I became, you know, a professional and I did a lot of horses and training. We competed, I did represent the United States that young riders championships and was kind of going down that, that path of whatever it means to be a dressage professional thought I was perfectly happy, but starting to feel a little bit dissatisfied a little bit like something was missing. And then had some sort of interesting experiences with some horses that caused me to go wait a minute, I need to rethink how I'm doing everything and that kind of brought me full circle back to doing horses in a way that reminded me of how I felt when I was a little kid and in love with horses. So that's kind of my goal now is to keep that feeling and train, instead of throwing away that feeling to try to become very professional, you know and focus on the professionalism, whatever that means. So now I really focus on, I love horses and I want to feel like a little kid in love with horses every single day. Sorry, I was supposed to focus on the, before I gave you the whole story.

Ronnie:

So the excitement of when you were a kid, I remember I was late coming to horses. I always loved horses, but my parents weren't in a position to have a pony, so I did go to riding lessons, but it was as in when and I can always remember. If I was in the house and you heard clip clop clip clop I'd run to the window and I would go out and I'd go please can I stroke your horse, please can I stroke your horse, and I'd get so excited and I'd watched him go off down the street until you could barely see them and I could feel my heart pounding and say, oh, wow. You know, I wish I wish. So when I finally had my first pony, it was like oh my God, what am I doing? This animal is going to rely on me.

Karen:

Yeah. Well, I think that's really important for everybody to remember. Cause I think when you're in the business and you do it as a profession, it's easy to be like, oh yeah, another horse. Oh yeah. Another horse I got a job to do, but I try to keep it in the front of my mind that like these horses lives are completely in my hands. And you had an experience when I was a kid of, when I sold my first horse and sold it to a friend and I thought that would be great. Cause I could get to still see the horse. And then I just watched that horse oh, just crumble emotionally and turn from the sweetest horse in the world to an aggressive horse. And then when summer, when I was away, they sold it to the local horse dealer. And like that just still, I've got, I got a picture of that horse on my desk, always. So I remember like I have a responsibility and their lives and their success in this life is completely in our hands based on human decision. So I learned that early. It was heartbreaking, but I think actually, that experience really shaped who I am today and how I do things.

Ronnie:

And you still remember that, so that's ingrained in you, but that's driving you forward. So although that must've been horrible and but it's still there, it makes it even more important that you get your message across. When I say message your teaching, your learning to help people with a horses to have a fun relationship. And it doesn't mean that they can't be competitive but it's just recognizing that's one thing, that's something else, but if you bring them together, wow, what could you achieve? But let go of the outcome.

Karen:

Yeah and that's one of the, you know, I had said there was a few experiences when I was a professional that caused me to rethink things. And so the second horse that I had when I was a kid was an off the track thoroughbred who did like hunter jumper stuff. And didn't know any dressage and neither did I, but I wasn't interested in dressage at that point so much, but I did it anyway, cause I was in pony club, but it was that horse that I ended up representing the U S on the young writers team. So that horse like kept going above and beyond what anybody thought that he should do. You know, we never would have bought him if we were looking for a upper-level competitive dressage horse, but that's what he turned into and I remember. Like, he's the one who made my career really. And I remember thinking, gosh, he was such a special horse. He gave so much, he gave so much, I'll never meet a horse as special as that horse. So then as I'm a professional trainer for years, and I didn't have my own horse. Worked with lots of, much more talented horses as far as their breeding and their movement. And I always think, you know, gosh, no horse gives as much as that horse gave. And it wasn't until somebody willed me a horse and it was kind of a shutdown upper-level horse. And so there, I had him and I started playing with him and doing more partnership stuff and playing with him like I did when I was a kid cause I finally had my own horses. And then all of a sudden that horse started going above and beyond. And I said, I haven't had this feeling since that other horse brave Tom from when I was a kid. And I thought, oh gosh, it's the way I'm treating them because I'm not just training them and focusing on technique. I actually like cuddled and schmoozed and had relationship stuff and did funny, silly stuff with this horse because he was mine. He wasn't one of my clients' horses and all of a sudden he started going above and beyond and offering more and more. And that's what really got my attention and said, oh, my success in dressage training is definitely due to technique, but not technique alone because if I didn't have that relationship with the horse, they're just going to let me move them around. But they're not gonna do things with me and for me. And so once I saw that, it's like, there's no going back, it's really, the relationship part is absolutely integral to any kind of success. I think.

Ronnie:

Absolutely, as you is talking I was thinking about the film, see biscuit. At the end, when he was racing and I know when he's on the actual horse, it's not a horse, he's mechanical horse, but I'm on the sofa and I'm jumping up and down, but it's more about not winning the race, it's the, the drive of proving other people wrong about this little horse, that it was broken and it's going to be put to sleep, going to be shot and the relationship. I like those films and champion at Bob champion that film that's another one about him and the horse that he won the grand national on. And it's just a feel good and it's that working together, those two energies coming together and making the best of what they've got, but go in past the point that people think they're going to get past, which I love. So just tell us about the horse, so you've mentioned Tom. And you've also got Vivaldi.

Karen:

That's the horse that was willed to me that was sort of shut down yeah.

Ronnie:

Yeah and then Monty was the one that set you off to go to see pat and yeah.

Karen:

So Vivaldi, his little pet name was Bubba. Vivaldi was the one really shut down and he was starting to have some soundness his problems. And he's the one that I first said, let me learn some fun, silly tricks with him and I stumbled across a Perelli clinic. I didn't really know what that was, but I saw them, you know, horse standing on a pedestal. So I'm like, that looks like a fun, silly trick. So again, kind of stumbled across natural horsemanship. I didn't know what that was. With some very simple, different kind of exercises and techniques that I had no idea about. I saw the light come on in his eye and I saw his personality coming out. So he was the one that first got my attention of going oh wait? All of a sudden he's offering more. And then Monty was a horse, now I knew a little bit of new information and you know what they say, you know, a little information is more dangerous than that. So I thought, well, I gotta practice this funny stuff, but I'm in the middle of a dressage training facility. I didn't have, you know, nobody wanted me to do that with her horses. So I found out about this lipazon who was being given away cause he was crazy or whatever and he dumped people. I thought, oh good. Here's the horse it's messed up. I can't mess them up anymore. I'll experiment with this new, partnership based techniques with him and he'll be mine and I can afford him cause he's a dollar. And I'll just see if this stuff really works or not. So he was my little experiment horse and he just turned to be quite a challenge, but also just amazing what he could do at Liberty and bridal less and he just really, I think he was brought into my life to go, you see, it really does work. And he humbled me and he made me start from scratch and look at again, everything that I did because he was a bit challenging, Like Vivaldi was very tolerant. Monte was not, he's like, Nope, outta here. Bye. You can't do that. Huh? How am I going to approach this differently? So he really taught me, he made me rethink how I was thinking. Cause that horse, if I didn't change how I was thinking, he wouldn't change. He could tell what I was thinking when I left the house. I headed out on the pasture and he'd looked at me from like 10 acres away and go, no, or he'd come to me completely dependent on my thoughts. So he really, really taught me that.

Ronnie:

It's amazing, the tiniest tweak can make a difference, but do you find it's hard when it's your horse and you've got your emotional. Emotional self with it. Do you, find it's harder than when you're teaching your client and their horse, their partner?

Karen:

Yeah I think it's always a little bit harder because it's hard to not be somewhat more emotionally attached, or as a professional, there's always the added pressure of like, I'm the profession. This should be going better than it is. You know, we, we put extra pressure on ourselves, which usually does not help matters. But on the other hand, you know when I'm teaching other people with their horses, I can stand back and have a little clearer perspective. Cause I can see, look, I see what's going on here is easy. It's harder to see the picture when you're inside the frame for sure. But now the way I train and work with horses, I actually don't enjoy training other people's horses because I can't do it without creating a really close, open, trusting relationship. And once I do that, I find it really hard to give them back Yeah, I find it hard. So I love working with people and their horses together and creating that partnership and helping them do that. And I love working with my own horses, but I find it really hard and really heartbreaking to just train other people's horses.

Ronnie:

The thing is when you're training another horse and that horse goes back to the owner. Then they have to take over and try and do the same thing that you achieved with our horses, but they're not you and they won't sit like you or they won't have the same energy. So they've almost got to Figure it out when they get them back to try and see, okay, what's working and that can be difficult sometimes. So it's nice to do it the way that you do where you have your client and the horse, and you can see them working together. You can point things out, but you can see the improvement and they get to experience it and as the practicing, it's like, okay, I can't not now, oh, I get what you're saying and then the next bit, okay. I really get what you're saying, which must be really nice and rewarding to do.

Karen:

Yeah to me that's the interesting part is, you know, it's that person's horse, so that's gotta be the goal. It doesn't matter what it does for me. It matters what it does for them. So sometimes I'll get on a student's horse to educate or clarify something or give someone a picture, but the goal is always for them to understand each other and to be a partnership. That's what the horse needs and that's why I really enjoy working with students who are interested in becoming empowered. Right. So if someone says, can you fix my horse? No, it's not gonna work. You know, but if they come to me going, you know, I love this horse and here's what we're trying to do and here's where we're stuck. Can you help me? I'm like, sure. So I've learned that that's what I enjoy doing personally, because after training other people's horses for so long and, and you know, it can be extremely rewarding when I put a horse and a rider together and they go off into the sunset, you know, enjoy each other. And it's extremely heartbreaking if you take a horse that you work really hard to open up their trust and open up their vulnerability and let them be soft and let them be open. And then you give them back to someone who's going to violate that every single day, I feel like I did the horse of disservice. So I'm very particular. Yeah I totally understand what you mean by that. I think a lot of people that work in the horse business or the whole side of work, actually I have to be careful how I say this, because I don't want to insult anybody, but if they get where they they're really. In that place that you are and the working towards that place, that they can see things and feel things that may be somebody else wouldn't and it's not because there being cruel or mean, it's just that they're not in that mindset. They haven't been pointed out that way or they're just not in that mindset. So it can be really hard to work around horses when you comeback. As you've said, you know, if you're going to do that, you want something to change between the dynamics of the horse and human, not to carry on down the same route because otherwise or their issues or a similar issue is going to reoccur because it's not seen from the human point of view. It's not really seen where the horse is coming from. Yeah I mean, we're all learning, so it's not like I'm perfect by any means. And also you know, there's people who specialize in starting horses and helping rehabilitate horses and we need people who can do that. We need people who can train horses. I just can't do it from an emotional point of view, you know? So I'm not saying it's wrong, cause we definitely need people who can help horses that are in bad spots or educate horses. So that they can be matched with people who have the similar goals. It's just, I've realized myself emotionally, that's not what I wanna do. And that can be successful. Someone starts a horse or educates a horse and then sells it to somebody and you know I think the main thing is that the anybody who owns a horse, in my opinion, anybody owns a horse, has to be really, really invested in the wellbeing of the horses whole life. And if someone has that attitude, then anything's possible, we can learn, we can do our best. We can make mistakes. We can recover from our mistakes. It's that intention of that full realization of our responsibility to the horse. I think that's the piece, I want to surround myself with people who really feel that and are making decisions in the best interests of their horses.

Ronnie:

Absolutely, absolutely. So Karen, where are you today? So if somebody came to you and says, can you help me with my relationship with my house? What would be the first steps that you would do? How would you evaluate them and how would you sort of start the process?

Karen:

Yeah, well, it's interesting because right now, if somebody comes to me, I have so many resources for people already. So between podcast or my video, the classroom and things like that and my book and I'll often send them to those and that's gonna sound like, oh, it's a marketing thing, but it's really not. Because like I said, I'm interested in riders who are owners, who are really interested in being invested and empowered. So people who are like, you've got videos for that, let me go watch those, you know, it's, it's that like, I'm going to go learn and I'm going to figure this out rather than, okay. Here I am, make me do stuff. So there's definitely a time and a place for in-person things. But I usually point people to some of my resources kind of just to go. How interested are you really like, are you going to go put some effort into finding out what you can find out? So that's part of the empowerment part that's I'm really interested in is, is like, how can I help you learn more yourself? But when somebody does come to me or if, when I'm giving clinics and I meet students for the first time. I asked them lots of questions about what's working and what's not, and I just really listened to them, then all observe them. And so I don't jump right in and start to micromanage and go here's step one. Here's step two. Here's step three. What I do is look and I have three first filters. And I think the one filter is foundation partnership. So in that bucket, is the horse look healthy? Is it pain-free, what's the attitude between the horse and the rider? What words are they using to describe the horse and is there like basic foundational, they can move around and be safe around each other or are they leaping and bucking? Are they scared of each other? So then if that bucket is sort of, okay, like, all right, they're happy enough together. Then I look at how are they moving? Is the horse crooked? Is it irregular? Is it contracted? Is it tight? Are they pulling on the reins? And that's the sort of biomechanical harmony bucket. And if everything's good there, then I look at the gymnastic development. Are they engaged? Are they collected? Are they supple? Are they straight. Do they have carrying power, things like that. So when I first see someone, I stand back and I go, where is the disharmony? So I just look away. Where's the harmony, where's the disharmony. And then if there's disharmony, which bucket is it in? Is it in a partnership bucket sort of partnership wellbeing? Is it in the biomechanics bucket or is it in the gymnastic bucket? And when I think of the partnership, cause that sort of the first place you have to go, I look at, you know, is this a happy horse? Is it a happy person? And are they happy together? And that's where I start. So if there's missing pieces there, I have to start there. If you have a rider coming in and going, my horse is such a jerk, I'm like, oh, we're not going to work on children's, you know like really and then we just moved from there. So I have, what I call my happy athlete training scale. And at the base is happiness. Is it a happy horse, with a happy life and a happy human with a happy life. And then the next step is, do they have harmony together? And then if they have harmony, how well do they communicate? And if they can communicate well then how is their biomechanics, how well do they move together? And then if that's all good, the pinnacle for me is dressage and gymnastic training, but I have to address it in that order ultimately.

Ronnie:

So you can pinpoint certain areas yeah that makes sense to me and that's a clear picture of where you got to go. But yeah, that's my thing I don't like to hear is when they abused the horses verbally, even if it's said jokingly, yeah it's not a thing i particularly like either. I say you know, they can understand you, so don't talk about them in front of the horses. They know exactly what you're talking about. And it's the vibe that you give off, yeah they know and as you said, they know what you're thinking before you even get there.

Karen:

And I don't think they owe us anything anyway. So like, if someone's like, oh, my horse is so bad, it's like And why should he be good? You know, horses are perfect until we come along and ask them to do something that they're not ready to do, or put them in a situation they can't handle. So anything that's not going well is completely up to us. We put them in that situation. They probably were fine if we just left them alone and in an environment that's great for horses. So we have to always think if something's not working, it's always on me.

Ronnie:

And they do such a lot for us, you know these creatures they carry us, they give us emotional support. They put it with quite a lot and when they get to the point of breaking down mentally or physically, they've taken quite a load already. And again it's not always intentional. When I think back to, when I was a kid and you were taught about horses you know, and you have to be the leader and you have to do this and you got to show him who's boss. I mean, all these phrases they maybe meant well at the time, but it's not really the language that you need to be talking about. I think it is changing, like you get on a horse and you have to kick it to make it go. no you don't. The language that we use is so ingrained that we don't think about it sometimes. And if that was the person, and you were saying those things about a person at your side, you'd be like, hang on a minute I am here, you know, hello. So it's just changing your mindset and seeing it from their point of view and I always look at me okay, what frame of mind am I in? Even when I think, no, I've left my baggage at home and my horse will go, no you haven't. But if she's having a bad day, she's got her own energy levels going on because of the weather or whatever, she's like, I can't deal with you and me. So off you go. Then the next day I can have a sorting my head out. I go there and she wants to be with me. But also that can change very quickly. And if you catch yourself doing that and step out of yourself almost like it's not your horse, you're doing something for somebody else's horse and you haven't got the emotional attachment, you can see them change. It's almost like the go phew, you know so you might not achieve great things on that day, but what you've achieved is them to just relax because they know that your in tune with yourself or your noticing what's going on with yourself and if you get to ride, that's the cherry on the cake. Absolutely. So who are the horses you have now, your own horses, tell me a little bit about those. Yeah.

Karen:

I have a big mishmash of horses. So the horses that I'm riding right now, or my horse ovation, and he's a whole Steiner paint, and he's fairly advanced. I have Solana who is a mare she is. Kiger Mustang and delusion Oldenburg cross. Interesting breeding. I have Natalia who is a pre and then I also have a horse named Teo, who I got most recently. Well, a couple of years ago. He was about to be put down in a dressage barn. And I was like, all right, I'll take them. He had some issues sweet horse though. And I have a new Philly, she's almost two her name is Cora and she is Lusa Tano andulsion cross. And then I have my horse atomic, who is a national show horse. And he's a fun Liberty, horse. I have ridden him too, but then we decided that both of us were happier if I didn't. And he had some major health issues the last couple of years, but he is here and he is just as sassy as ever. And then I have a horse hot shot who was given to me about, seven or eight years ago at this point he was about to be retired for, for being lame and I got him sound within a month and He went and another seven years with me. And then just in the last year you had some other issues and long-term chronic things that kind of caught up with him. So I retired him, but now he's sound again. So I'm watching him bounding around and I'm like, Hmm, maybe, maybe I'll start to play with him again. So those, those are my guys.

Ronnie:

So you've collected more horses basically.

Karen:

Yeah. They don't ever leave. There's only one way that they leave. They leave, they leave me. They're here for life. It was just a decision I made. I love horses. When they come in their family and that's just a decision I made, I'm lucky I have property and I can take care of them and they can stay here forever. And Yeah. So I just decided that that's how I want it to be.

Ronnie:

And so that's, so I I'm kind, I seem to be collecting horses. My mare she's with me for life. The way she's going to use is, you know, that way. I made a promise to, to do that because I I've only ever owned three horses in my life. So a little dun pony which I remember buying for£500, that was quite a few years ago and he was in a local pub. He was in the garden and they used to keep him in this garden and it was looked after well, and I saw an advert for this pony and for some reason I went to have a look. I had no money. I thought, why am I going to look at this pony. And I went to look at this pony and I remembered. I'm driving home and saying to my mom. Oh, I've just been to see this pony, but I don't have the money. Oh, what am I doing mom? And she says, well, why don't you see if they would let you pay a little bit each month? And I went mother, I says, they don't do that with horses. And she says, well, you don't know, unless you try. So. Okay. And I saw they're not gonna do that. Anyway I went back. This was before mobile phones, really? No, went back. And as I said, I really like Oliver, I said I really like him, but I have to be honest. I can scrape a little bit, but I don't have the full amount. And he said, oh, that's no problem. I said would you take a deposit and keep him? They said, oh, put a deposit down and you can take him? I was like, what? So I had nowhere to keep this horse and my friend said, you can keep him on the farm so we went to pick him up, I had no tack, had no idea how to look up to her horse. I was like, what am I doing? And he lived on a farm with a bull. There was a bull in the field and he would hang around with this bull which was quite hilarious. And you know, he was amazing pony and I went everywhere on him and he was such a, such a, a gentle chap and he taught me so much. And when he went, cause I think in those days if life changed and you couldn't get your horse, I didn't have my own place. So I wasn't able to do that and I had to sell him and at the day he went, it was horrible and I vowed I'd never do that again. You know, I would not do that again and then I had an race horse called ferry and she had muscle atrophy, so because she was a yearling, she raced on a track. After a while her muscles just disappeared on one side. She was with me for quite a few years, and then I was going through a divorce and again, the same thing happened and I thought I cannot do this again, but she actually went to she went to a friend of a friends who took her on and then she found her like a permanent home. So Toots, this time she's not going anywhere. So that's what I promised. So she stuck with me whether she likes it or not. Oh yeah but I don't ride because she has something called Shivers which you know about it, don't you? Yeah. And I did clicker it with us. So because I didn't ride I thought, well, she's going to be bored. I want to interact with her. So we used to play, so I used to use clicker to play and I used to get to go underneath arches and hula hoops and just play and to help her when she was struggling with her legs, I would start doing click around her legs and that works really, really well. The winters are hard because she's out 24, 7, she has shelter, but she is out and she prefers to be out. So she finds that harder spring and summer is a lot easier on a joints. But that helped me actually get over my confidence as well, using clicker to get on her. So we do have fun. I'm not sure whether she agree sometimes but we do have fun. They are amazing creatures. So how did you discover shivers in your horse. They didn't tell me about that until he was here. Okay.

Karen:

I don't think it's actually true shivers, I think it's more of a, what they called standing leg hyper flection or something. So it shows up if you were to ask him to pick up his foot to be picked out is when we does the big shaking and abduction. But he is able to back up So the diagnosis of it is a little thing, but he doesn't have all the criteria for shivers all that. That's what the person told me that their vet said he had. So something neurologic is going on there. But it, it doesn't seem to affect his riding. It often doesn't affect their performance except for the backing up, but it is progressive, usually the true shivers.

Ronnie:

I've had Toots since she was four and she's 20 now and it was the tiniest, tiniest thing that I noticed. It's only diagnosed by a look of a vet, not blood tests or anything like that. She's actually better when I back her up. So I used to practice backing it with her, with a clicker just playing around and that helped her. Because once she'd loosened up and she relaxed, she could move a lot better. I found that really, really helpful. I heard on, which I'm really interested in by the way, on Warwick's podcasts, when you was talking about your trip to to the pyramid, so how far are we going back now?

Karen:

Yeah this was around let's see, maybe around 2000 ish, something 2000, so 20 years ago now.

Ronnie:

Before that happened, without telling you your personal details and your life, what was going on with you? Was this something that was changing?

Karen:

Yeah, I mean, I think this was a time in my life, I had gotten a divorce. I was living myself. I was rethinking lots of stuff. Wasn't exactly happy at the training facility I was at, but hadn't really changed anything, but I just happened to pick up the book. The four agreements by Miguel Ruiz to highly recommend, very simple read simple to read, not the simple to live the four agreements. After I finished that book in the back it said something about power journey. So I called them up, said, I'll go on a power journey. So we went to Mexico with the author, Miguel Reese, who's like a Toltec shaman and yeah, it was quite the trip. And we went to this place called Teotihuacan in Mexico, which is like sort of a Toltec Mecca. And yeah, just very interesting. It's the philosophy is really about, it's not a religion or anything. It's just a way to live your life. It's it's about knowing yourself and knowing your book of rules that you've created for yourself and then once figured out what those rules are. You look at them and you go, do I want those or do I want to change them? So it's a real sort of personal journey kind of thing and I just tend to dive right into things. So, you know, I read the book and the next thing you know, I'm on top of the pyramid of the sun in Mexico with the Toltec and yeah, it was pretty cool.

Ronnie:

So when it talks about the rules, we make rules on ourselves. Do you mean like, as we're growing up, we say that we're going to be this or we're not going to be that, is that what you mean?

Karen:

It's a little bit of like every culture, every family has a culture, every country has a culture, every town maybe has a culture. It's the you shouldn't do that, ah okay. Nice people don't do that. No, this is the way it's done. No, that's dumb, it's like, well, who says, who says you can't do that? Who says this is the way it should be. So it's really looking at every single judgment that you have and realizing that all of those are created by someone. And a lot of this, you know, what, what Miguel will call like our domestication, right? We're all born. Just these pure beings. We're just born into this life open to everyone. And then we get taught stuff and everybody gets taught a little bit different stuff, depending on their family or their environment or where they live and their experiences they have. And that all accumulates and it so much happens by age five, you know, we're not really even fully conscious. And then you're living your whole life based on these rules that were determined. In your early domestication, before you're really truly conscious and fully formed. And then you're going through life bumping up against things that don't fit into your rules. And it's a cause of stress. It's a cause of so much tension in people's lives. So just to look at that and go, is this really what I now believe? And we as adults get to relook at all of that and make sure we're choosing our beliefs and our book rules in a way that's working for us. You know stuff like that.

Ronnie:

I find, it's hard working on yourself though isn't it? It's hard. Because you can be quite, I'm talking about me when I see you used to be quite critical because first of all I think my change in life came when I stop being a victim, I'm not a victim because things would happen in life. You could see a pattern that they would reoccur. Like you'd meet, somebody you'd get any relationship or something would happen and you'd see the signs but you didn't think you had the power to change it. I was brought up to believe if you met somebody you fell in love with that was it, that was for life but that was my parents' belief or my mother's and my grandparents believe my poor mother when she got divorced from my dad, she had such a hard time with her self because of what was ingrained in her. It was so, so hard.

Karen:

How many people are miserable because their belief in the rules was that the kids absolutely. Look kids this is what a bad relationship looks like. You know, that's somebody's rule.

Ronnie:

In those days you Buckled down and you got on with it and that was the thing, whether it was right or not, but that's what you did. Sometimes we look back at the past and think those were the good old days and some things were, but not everything. We can take the positive and the things like the old ways,. Some of the old ways. About the land about animals and how to treat them. In those days they hunted, but they had respect for the animals they hunted. We don't know the animals, you know, this is a whole nother subject. They go to the supermarket, they don't know where the animals are coming from, they don't know the story of the animal. There's a big chunk of things missing, that's part of it not knowing, not knowing who you are, where you come from and what's right for you rather than just going through life doing, because that's what you've done. It's hard because sometimes you're completely different or you've got to stand up for your peers or people that around you that don't think that way. So stepping out of your comfort zone, it's hard work, but I would never go back to the other me because of what I'm learning and I'm continuing learning and I love it.

Karen:

Well I think everybody's running around, myself included, I'm trying to break the habit of running around, trying to create the world as we want it. That's human nature right, you know, cause even if I say, I'm going to look at my beliefs and I'm going to make a new book of rules and that's the rules, you know, there's still even a problem with that because there's going to be people who have different rules and so then there's going to be conflict. And the more I go through life, the more I'm trying to realize that nothing has anything to do with me. I can't really control anything. And the best thing I can do is to use the words of Michael singer, who I highly recommend you look up his stuff is to surrender to the moment that's unfolding in front of me. And to realize that I am just one little speck and the best I can do is just be a part of what's happening. And then from that place, Well, here's this thing happening. Then I can make decisions as to what I need to do to make the best decision there. But I'm operating from a place of well, this is happening and how do I navigate it instead of that's wrong, you shouldn't do it that way. Then it's just very judgemental and creates resistance and then you're just fighting with things. And so just going, well, this is happening. What's the best way through this, you know? Cause then you're, you're not coming with the attitude of that. Person's wrong I have, or that horse is wrong or this situation is wrong. It's like, it's just happening. It has no meaning to me, nothing has meaning it's just happening. And then we just want to like be in a place of love and navigate through it. So I honor myself and others as best I can. That's the goal. It feels easyer it's not simple, it's challenging, but it's full of ease when you think of it that way. I'm not here to try to make anybody fit into any picture at all. I'm just, here's how I want to move through life. And. I don't want to resist. I just want to navigate.

Ronnie:

Yeah that makes sense. So you've got your online place where people can watch your videos and you still do clinics. every now and then.

Karen:

Yeah, I have a couple that I do here at my place and then I travel. I mean the last two years I haven't traveled much, but I'm starting to do a little bit of traveling here and there. Like the amount of clinics that I do just varies depending on my mood and I've been burned out once, conscious of change, you know, doing what I want to do and then changing it if it starts to feel like it's getting out of balance. So I am looking forward to starting to do some more clinics and see some people.

Ronnie:

Do you do agility with your horse, cause you've got so many horses, my mind's thinking. Okay. What's the day like at Karen's place, it must be quite amusing.

Karen:

Today I rode three of them and then let's see yesterday, I took my Philly for a little adventure walk and then today, oh and then I exercise Teo online and then core and Teo went into the pond and we had a pool party. And then today I did tricks with atomic where he put the ring on the cone and touched this square instead of the circle and sat in the bean bag and you know, so everybody has their own little repertoire that they do. Do you still see Linda Parelli. Actually Linda hosted a dressage clinic with I guess, instructor from Europe last week, so I was just over at her place taking some lessons in that clinic, so that was fun. Nice. Yeah.

Ronnie:

What plans, anything coming up for summer because we can move around now.

Karen:

Yeah some fun things coming up in March is when we open up registration for my finding the sweet spot of healthy biomechanics course. So that's always super fun because we get students from all over the world and we run them through the course and we live weekly calls and we do video coaching. So that's fun because I get to interact with students from all over the world. So that's coming up next month and then, oh my gosh let's see. I have a clinic in Texas then I'm going to be going to, and then I have a clinic here kind of in the April time. Yeah then it starts getting hot. So I actually don't have I don't have any travel plan for the hot months yet but we have some projects of things that we're working on for some more virtual things. So always doing something.

Ronnie:

And you've got a lovely place that you can play around with your horses, like you said, you're very lucky to have that. So most horses in the UK, are land is a lot smaller than out in the states and they don't always have like a big array area. So winter months you tend to have smaller paddocks for the majority people and I'm looking that Toots she's always been out on her life, 24 7, cause that's what I've wanted for her so she can move around. So I'm lucky but some places they can be in quite a lot, especially in the winter and they go out for a few hours. So when we get dry ground and sunshine, it's like, you know, like when the all run to this see side with the bucket and spade because the sun's out, it's like, yeah, you see everybody out with the horses. I've told Toots so I'm camping this year. The first year lockdown I stayed at my friend's farm where she still is actually. My friend said, well, you may as well move in because then you can see toots every day. So we sort of lived together and I got to camp out. So I camp in the field for a few nights. So I've decided I'm doing that again this year. So if I don't get far, I can go to the field and camp. So that that should be fun, but I love that because I love spending time, just watching and being with Toots. I love listening to them eat the hay. It's very, it's just very tranquil it's lovely and especially in summer, you're watching the tail swish as the sun goes down, I love spending time just being with my horse which, you know, you get to do. every day as well. Is there anything else that you'd like to talk about Karen?

Karen:

No I think that's good. Anybody can find me. I'm very Googleable. So you can find me@dressagenaturally.net. And like I said, there's lots of free stuff. So you can get free videos. You can listen to my podcast or read my blog. There's a lot of things on my website to kind of investigate and then if there's anything studied more closely with me, you can click on the programs tab and find all kinds of stuff there to do, or just shoot us an email. Like if you look around on there and you're like, I don't know what to do. You can book a private consult with my team and we'll just talk to you about you and your horse and figure out what would be the best place to point you to as far as to get going.

Ronnie:

People normally take a video if they're going to do a consultation with you, do a little video so that it can send you.

Karen:

Not for that, that this is the little private consult. It's not really a coaching session it's more just like, Hey here's what my horse and I are dealing with. Which resource would be the best for us. For the people in our online courses we do video coaching, we do private video coaching and then. People post videos for the life group Q and a. So there is an opportunity for that, definitely.

Ronnie:

Okay. I'm just going to put a few comments.

Karen:

Oh, great book. Is that the four agreements? I'm wondering if he's wondering about that? Michael singer, the untethered soul and the surrender experiment. Michael singer actually his temple universe is like 40 minutes from me, so I've been able to go and before COVID sit and hear him speak really cool. Another very simple, entertaining read, and really hard to do what he said.

Ronnie:

Well, it's been a real pleasure chatting with you, thank you so much for agreeing to come on and spending some of your time with us. And to hear a little bit about your life and your amazing horses And it is interesting because you have come from one part of your life and you've brought that experience into the new part. Which I think because of that and you've had a following that people can see that change and they can appreciate where you've come from. But also for themselves, they can see, well, maybe that's where I need to go now, which is a big thing.

Karen:

Always reinvent yourself.

Ronnie:

I'm just going to pop you out. Karen, if you don't mind just hanging on for a second, then I can say buying person. What a lovely lady. I hope you enjoyed our little chat tonight and if you want to get in touch with Karen, there are links at the bottom of video and making this into a podcast. So I'll put the links on that as well. Thank you for your comments it's a pleasure sharing these evenings with you. And if it brings a little insight and a little change for you and your horses, that's definitely a bonus as far as I'm concerned. So take care, thank you very much and chat to you soon. Bye for now.