Interview with Susan Glick - www.facebook.com/heartsong

Interview with Susan Glick - Heart song Equine

I came aware of Susan through a a post I saw on Locki Phillips page Emotional Horsemanship, where she wrote about how horses have changed and guided her throughout her life but also how a shift in consciousness/ humanity has also brought about a change, on how we view horses and interact with the magnificent beings. 

After a brief conversation with Susan, I already knew there was more to this lady than meets the eye, so I was very excited to have Susan on as a guest and the fact that I wasn't even aware of who she was (prior to a few weeks earlier) just added to the excitement. 

I was grateful for the opportunity to get to know more about Susan's personality and her love of horses.

She was a delightful young woman and her love and passion for the beautiful horses in her care came across in many ways.

So sit back, relax and I hope you enjoy this  episode, chatting about horses, humans and so much more.

Video version (alongside applicable podcasts) can be viewed on facebook and YouTube.
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Contact Ronnie.
mailto:equinevoicesronnie@gmail.com

Transcript

Ronnie: 0:11

Hello and welcome to Equine Voices Podcast. My name is Ronnie and I'm your host. This interview is with Susan Regina Glick and she's an equine assisted healing coach. website on Facebook is HeartSongEquine. I'm not going to do a long drawn out introduction. I'm just going to get Susan on and she can introduce herself and then we'll go from there. Okay. Hi Susan.

Susan: 0:38

Hi, I'm so happy to be here finally. I feel like there is a lot going on there for a little bit.

Ronnie: 0:45

Not going to lie, it's always a little nerve wracking. But anyway, we're here now. So, if don't mind introducing yourself, and say as much as you like, and then we'll go from there.

Susan: 0:56

Okay. it feels like introducing myself should be like an easy question at this point I feel like I should know who I am and I should know my identity and have all of that figured out. But I feel like, Even just in the last several weeks, things change really quickly and sometimes things come up and I get to work through them all over again, but right now today, who I feel like I am, is, someone who has been a part of the world. And I'm not just someone who has been a part of the world for a few years, but I'm a part I am amazingly blessed to have horses in my life who have taught me a lot of things, and people in my life. Horses have brought a lot of different people into my life that have taught me a lot, and today I feel like I am, here to learn. And so that feels like a big part of my identity today. Is that a weird answer? I feel like it changes by the day sometimes. But what's solid for me is that I'm a believer, I'm a Christian, I love love horses, and I love my family, and I love the people that God has put in my life and is putting here and there on my journey, that I get to interact with and learn from. I'm just really happy to be here today.

Ronnie: 2:08

That's perfect. Let's start back at the beginning. So how did horses come into your life? I know that you've had them around for a long time, but if you tell the listeners, how did horses come into your life?

Susan: 2:21

Yeah, so I was raised in an Amish community. So my family is still Amish. So I grew up in the community and horses, as a lot of people know, are a big part of the Amish lifestyle as they don't typically drive vehicles. You know, they have the horse and buggies, horses are used, as a big part of the farming lifestyle for the Amish who are farmers and so, I grew up with horses but the horses I grew up with and the part of my life that horses were in is very different than it is now for me. Because at that point, as a young girl, growing up Amish, horses are a part of your life. I don't want to sound crude, but basically, they're a way to get around, right? They're like a tool. They're like a tractor we keep in the garage. there's not much of a thought given to, the horse being a living being with emotions and ideas of its own. You know, we raise them, we train them, they do their job. And that's the part horses played in my life. As an Amish girl, but I was also very attached and attracted to the idea of connecting with horses from a young age. I don't really know how that started. I just love being around horses so pretty soon, you know, I knew I was gonna have a pony, and the pony was gonna be my best friend. And, already at that point was a little bit of a different twist on, typical young Amish girl growing up with horses around. That's how horses came to be in my life. And then, when I left the Amish community, that was obviously a choice I made to keep them in my life. And At that point, they were a huge part of my life. So, I guess there's kind of two different phases of it. But that's how it got started for me.

Ronnie: 3:58

I'll be honest, I don't know a huge amount about, Amish communities. Only what I've seen on films so I understand that horses were there to farm the land to get around, as you said, like a car. So that's not a judgment thing or anything. That's how it was. And you can say the same for rural UK, England, you know, horses were very much part of the farm. They were there to do a job and it can vary between different families, whether they were more of a relationship built, Working horse or just, you know, we feed the horse, we look after it because it's got to do a job sort of thing. So, yeah I understand that side. When did it change for you? When was the connection and what did that mean for you?

Susan: 4:46

So I don't actually know how old I was. I was probably eight years old. I was an avid reader. I read all the horse books I could get my hands on. And I read books like, the Black Stallion and Misty of Shinkitig and books like that, where, the person and the horse had like this magical connection. And I was like, I really want that with a horse. I really want to have a pony of my own and have that with my pony. And so, yeah. I think that's part of where it came from or where, the recognition of it came from, inside of me, I guess, and then, when I got my phony, things didn't look like that, because I got a two-year-old miniature Shetland cross, and she loved her life, and I loved her, but she was a handful for, a 10-year-old who didn't really know how to work with horses, I shouldn't say I didn't know how to work with horses, because I knew how to work with horses in the Amish sense, right? Like, you tell them what to do, and they do it, and my pony didn't do that. And so I started learning I had to be, her friend, so that she wanted to be with me. And, Now, to me, it looks like, at that point, it was a really, a really... selfish relationship, I was like, okay, I'm going to be your best friend so that you want to do what I ask. And if we jump forward all of these years, now where I'm at is like, I want to be everything I can for the horses, just because they are amazing, not because they can do something for me in return. Which is a huge, a huge switch. When you make that switch in your brain, it doesn't happen overnight. Like I'm still weeding out with these. Mindsets and the ideas about kind of an entitlement almost like, well, I take care of you. I do this. I do that for you. So you should be willing to, be my course and do the things I asked. And now at this point, like I said, I'm still like weeding out some of that. But the difference in the mindset when I started and from what is now still a lot. Of the outlook or the mindset around horses in the Amish community, to where I am now. Huge. Like, there's no comparison. And like you said, it's not a judgment. I had to get to a place where I was accepting, willing to face that that's, how I used to be and willing to own that before I could start thinking about ways to change it in order to help horses. Thank you for watching! In the community and in my life. Um, I feel like I kind of went on a bunny trail there, but maybe that answers your question.

Ronnie: 7:07

No, that was perfect. And I was smiling when you said about Shetland. I think that's a universal, universal thing. My friend here has Shetlands and Yeah, they've got their own mindset. Well, Most horses do actually.

Susan: 7:22

Yeah, and you know, it was a great way for me to learn that I don't get to always have my way just because I'm the boss, you know. I think they're great training ponies for young kids because... They will probably Make you or break you as a horse person. Yeah, you have a conversation with him. You don't tell him what to do. Yeah, exactly.

Ronnie: 7:51

Absolutely. So Gail, she's an animal communicator and Gail's been, an honoured guest on my podcast too. She's saying hi from Canada. Hi Gail, lovely to have you join us. If anybody wants to ask Susan any questions, by the way, please feel free to just drop a comment okay. So this is my friend Sam, who's at house I'm at now, and she's got Shetlands. Shetlands are the best. She wants to heard the Shetlands.

Susan: 8:21

I love that. That's so cool. I wish I could have a herd of Shetlands. But... I ended up, for some reason, collecting horses here and there, and now I have one Shetland and one Minnie, and that's probably all the ponies I can handle for now.

Ronnie: 8:34

That sounds very much like Sam. The Shetlands that she has actually were, Party ponies. They were used for, children's parties. And she ended up having them at the farm where she used to live. Because they didn't have a lot of grazing, the lady that owned them. But she passed away, so she acquired these Shetlands. Anyway so this is for the benefit of the audio afterwards. Hello, way to go Susan on recognizing that horses have feelings and could be our wonderful friends. So that's Gail again. I was going to ask you a question, it's just gone out of my head now. Right, I'll tell you what we'll do. I know you do clinics and you do workshops, and of course, I came across you from Lockie's, website. It was his Facebook page, actually, and you'd put a, a beautiful post on there, which I did share on my page and it was just beautiful words. So would you like to say in your words what horses mean to you?

Susan: 9:27

I think you're talking about the post that Lockie had shared that you saw.

Ronnie: 9:32

Yes, it's a picture of you, and you wrote about the meaning of God and what God means to you within the horses and how that brings, I'm not doing it justice. Do you know where I'm going with this? Yes,

Susan: 9:44

I think I remember the post. I'm pulling it up on my phone so I can actually put myself back in that space.

Ronnie: 9:49

It was very heartfelt. It was just the feeling behind that and that's what prompted me to contact you and say, would you like to do a podcast interview? Yeah.

Susan: 10:00

So, I think the feeling I was having when I wrote that post was about how I was having this feeling like there's been this clearing out happening and like I was saying before where I'm weeding out these old mindsets and I'm seeing a lot of what I thought I knew is being replaced, I think to be able to articulate it well, I need to kind of explain some of the process of what's been happening in my life at the same time. It's kind of mirrored my journey with horsemanship has been this journey of leaving the Amish lifestyle. And it's kind of been like parallel lines happening where you know, Amish is supposed to be a lifestyle, it tends to kind of be conflated even in the culture as a religion instead, and, that was something I had a really hard time with as a girl. And at the same time that I was processing through all of that and weeding out some of that and working through it, I was doing the same thing in my horsemanship where all of these techniques and these rules and all of these mindsets I've been taught in horsemanship were starting to kind of fall apart and not work anymore and not work for me and my horses and I was looking for something different. And I went to a few different types of trainers who were more gentle, right? You know, more liberty, more fill in the blank. And I thought it was better, but it still wasn't quite what I wanted. It sort of really felt like home for me in horsemanship. And kind of along the same lines, I looked for, different churches and different places to call, my community after I left, the Amish. And I've come to a point where I believe that, I believe in God. I am, very, very, confident in my belief in God. In my salvation in Jesus Christ. But I believe that even a lot of times in the religious Christian circle, we get it wrong. Even after we are what people call saved, we look for things outside. We look for salvation and peace and everything outside of ourselves. And I've come to a place in both, like, spirituality and religion, in a sense, and in my personship, where I believe that everything we're looking for is already inside of us. And that has probably been the biggest thing. Game Changer, the biggest, mind shift for me has been, realizing that what we're looking for, what everyone is looking for, is already inside of them. Like, they already have it, because if you really think about it, and this might be getting too, technical and using too many you know, Christian-y words or whatever for, for some of your audience, because I'm very understanding and respectful of the fact that, not everybody is on the same page with it as as I am. But there's something that we call, sin, and in my mind, that's just being not aligned. To me, what that means is just being separated from God, which is just being out of alignment. And so that is probably one of the biggest, it feels like a little difference, but it's probably the biggest difference in how I, uh, I have come to connect with God and the horses and with other people and with myself than the way I was raised. So I don't know if that really covers your question about the post, but that's where I'm at.

Ronnie: 13:23

Yes it didn't as you were talking. So you're aware that I use my own guidance, my intuition and as you were talking, it was like, it's the connection to herself. And you said that it's your connection to yourself. And I think that's when you was talking about you was trying different, different ways to work with your horses and different training things again, that's all external. And yeah, as humans, we look for information to try to help and guide us. And it's brilliant as long as we start to feel that within us as well, as long as it feels right and resonates. So what can work a few weeks ago and it's perfect once you move on it might not be the same feel anymore so rather than stay with something that's not working and it doesn't feel quite right you'll start to listen to your own guidance your own feel again it's hard to put into words sometimes and horses are very good at showing us to be present to be present at that very moment because Five minutes later, the whole story might be completely different. And if you reflect back on you and realize, where am I now that the horse is showing me something? Yes, I might want to go out and do something, but am I listening to what the horse wants to do? And it's not a case of, well, you shouldn't let an animal tell you what to do. It's not that at all. It's, are they ready? Are they making sure that we're present? Are we listening? Because if we're not listening to ourselves, our own guidance, which is from them too. Then how can we communicate? How can we be a partnership? And where you are, is you're a partnership. So it's not about you wanting to do something all the time. It's you wanting to make something better, to have that connection. But Again, these are just words. Sometimes words are not enough and they don't quite put the words together. The picture, but that's all we have, so that's what we've got to work with. Does that make sense, or have I gone off on a tangent, Susan?

Susan: 15:37

That, that was amazing. I love that. And it makes sense to me because I totally understand and totally agree with what you're saying. Cause it's almost like we, can look all day for something outside of ourselves and I think there's probably some people who are going to be like, how can you say what you're saying and still consider yourself a Christian. Like I've had some conversations with people who have asked me that, like, that basically goes against what a lot of people think of as a Christian and have believed themselves their whole life that they're Christians. I think that the church, if we want to call it that, has a really big problem with, teaching, like, they teach good principles and they forget that the point of these principles is not necessarily just, like, to get people to believe in you. Somewhere, like to go to heaven, to go whatever, but it's so that you can live fully alive in the moment. I believe that's the purpose. That's like the whole story is to be able to live fully alive and horses have been huge with that, like to teach me that, I just don't think that we need to go searching for everything outside of ourselves, because if we are living in our true identity, our full true identity, we have everything, because God is in us, God is in us. Everything, it's all connected, and then it should just flow. And I would say that's the biggest thing that horses have taught me in the last probably four years. Probably they've been teaching me that all my life actually, and it's come to this point now. But they've been, especially in the last several years, I've been learning that from horses. A really good tangent you just went on.

Ronnie: 17:21

I do that quite often. But then who's to say that's maybe your journey, because you've learned so much about yourself through that. It doesn't mean to say that if you had another journey, you wouldn't have learned that. But at this present moment, your past is molded, where you are now and today. And your beautiful horses. Shall we talk about Sundance? Yes. Yes,

Susan: 17:41

we shall. We absolutely shall.

Ronnie: 17:43

So let's talk about Sundance and, the amazing journey. So again, I don't do too much background because I want to listen to you as, the listeners are. But I know a little so if you tell us about Sundance and, you two guys met yeah, a little bit of your journey.

Susan: 18:02

Yeah. So Sundance came into my life when I was, 12 years old. My cousins who lived across the street from my farm, their farm is right across the street from my family's farm. They bought her at an auction. And she was sold as, suspected pregnant, so she was in foal and they brought her home, and they rode her, and she did, okay, and she bucked and whatever, but she didn't hurt anybody. She was just kind of, you know, in their minds being, like, sassy, pony. bratty little thing, you know, all of the labels that female horses in pain get, unfortunately. And so they had her for half a year, she had her baby, and then Half a year later. So a full 12 months after they had bought her, they were going to send her back to the same auction because it was an annual local, horse and pony auction. They were going to send her back because at that point she had become, unhandleable, basically unmanageable. She didn't let anyone catch her. She had had her foal and obviously, they were doing things with the foal and she was being a really, really protective mom. So they decided they were just going to resell her, keep the baby. And I, in the meantime, have been walking home from school, past her pasture, and got to know her, and I would feed her my apple core from my lunchbox, or my leftover carrot sticks, or whatever, just, hang out with her, and spend time with her, and got to know her a little bit, and I decided that this is not something I'm willing to let happen. I don't want her to go back to the same auction, and I'm never going to see her again, and at the time I wasn't going to buy another pony or a horse, at the time I had my little, my little miniature Shetland and I was going to keep her and, and maybe get a bigger horse when I'm a little older. And this was when I was 13, and I went home and told my mom I need to buy her, I don't want to let her go. And I had been saving up some money for a new saddle for my pony. And so, instead of buying a new saddle, I bought Sundance for$200. And it took my dad, finally when we were able to catch her. Which took probably a good half hour or more for us to catch her in her posture. And then it took him... Another half hour to 45 minutes to lead her like quarter mile in my driveway. So she was in a lot of pain and a lot of emotional discomfort. She didn't like being around people at the time. We don't know anything about her past prior to my cousins getting her at the sale or at the auction. But I believe she had some kind of unfortunate experience. men,because it was specifically men she didn't really like. My dad walked past her stall, she would turn around and double barrel the door, just from him like walking passed. She was so...so not interested in interacting with men and she also had big version to WIPs. So those 2 things combined really made me just feel like she probably at some point didn't have a good experience. I don't like just attributing or labeling, horses feeling free to share their opinions as, oh, they must be traumatized. I don't like being the person who is just labeling it as trauma all the time. But I believe she had something in her past. I don't know what. And We worked through some of that, just her and I. I tried to connect with her, kind of the same as I tried to connect with my pony. And at the same time though, you know, at that point my goal was, ride her. You know, do the things with a horse that you do with a horse. And she wasn't really having it. Sometimes she was more agreeable to it, but she always protested. I know now that she has a lot of, you know, physical issues, like a lot of tension. She carries a lot of tension in her neck and her head. Um, and so looking back, she was probably in a lot of pain. And she was just trying to tell me that, and I had a lot of, riding accidents with her that I wouldn't tell my mom about. So, skipping through some of those years, because that's kind of all a blur for me, we were, we were doing okay. We had a lot of, discussions, her and I, about this, and, and we would come to kind of an agreement, and we would go on trail rides, and we had fun, I had fun, she tolerated it, probably, and fast forward to when I was 17. I was at our, Horse World Expo here in Pennsylvania, and I saw, for the first time, I had seen Liberty Work and Liberty Training before, but I saw, a partnership type of Liberty, There's different styles of Liberty Work, and I had seen, like, the really flowy, dancy, happy, where there's, like, ten horses running around, and it's really pretty. I saw for the first time, a trainer who looked like he was just the same being as his horse. Like he was just working so closely with his horse in a partnership. And I was like, that's what I want. I'm going to do that. Like that's the thing. And I went home and it was like, okay, Sundance, we're going to do Liberty work. And Sundance was like, you didn't ask me. She was like, no. I'm alright, thanks. Um, And so, that kind of threw me for a whole other loop, because I was like, Oh, like, if I give her a choice, of course she'll choose me, and she was like, No, you've not been understanding me, you're asking me for all these years, why would I? Now, choose you. So, that was, oh, five years ago? Five or six years ago that we started that. And Sundance is now 24. once I started learning about like the emotional healing stuff for myself and for my horses and working through some of those things with them together, that's when it really flipped a switch for Sundance and she really, that's when it really flipped a switch for me. She really started loving the Liberty work. I learned different techniques and different styles of Liberty and training methods and that kind of thing. And so for Sundance, there's like two different sides to her Liberty work. She's really good at just like telling me off, being like, no, if I am willing to hear it. She's also at this point very well-trained in certain liberty things. And so my challenge now with her is making sure I'm, open enough to hearing her because I have taught her that I hear her and when I ignore her, sometimes she would just go into like robot mode and do the thing anyway. And so I'm learning that some of the things we've been doing for years at this point, she really, really hates to do. And she's just done it because, you know, we've been doing positive reinforcement. She's learned that I like it and she wants to please me now. And so that's my recent, especially, with Working with Locky a bit and getting to know him and his program a little, that's been my eye-opener has been that some of these things she really doesn't like to do. And she's currently 24. So, I don't want to be forcing her to do things that are painful or I don't want her to do things she doesn't want to do at this point. She's 24 years old. I don't need her to perform so that I can live. She's 24 years old. I don't need her to help me, you know, go hunt or go to war. She's my horse and I love her no matter what happens or I'm her person, I guess, more than she's my horse. And, uh, you know, I don't love her because of what she can do for me. So. That's probably the big shift that's been happening back to like the post you were talking about. The big shift that's been happening in my, life, just like spiritually and emotionally and in person too.

Ronnie: 25:50

was lovely. That was a great explanation and it's a big commitment. So Horses take up a lot of time and a lot of finances, and, it's a 24-7 job. It's not like you can get a day off it's something you do every day. And you've either got to love it or not. as you said earlier, sometimes your expectations, even with the best will in the world, even myself at times, I'll go just give us a break Toots you know, just give us a break. I'm doing everything I possibly can. And she'll walk off and look at me and I'll go, okay. And sometimes you get in. Just doing mode and a little example is, she was having a feet trimmed the day and she adjusts her weight and she's very good with the trimmer because she communicates. But initially when the trimmer comes. She'll go, uh oh, trimmer's here, walk off. And I'll go, toots, you know, Natalie's kind. She listens to you because the previous trimmer was very, very good, but got very busy and it was all a rush. And you know what comes with that sometimes and then she stops and then she comes back. And while she's being trimmed, she was rubbing her head on me and she just said, and she, what she was saying to me? because she's my horse. So sometimes it's slightly different is"I need to adjust my body and it was the slightest thing. And she lifted the leg up ready for Natalie before she asked. she has a few physical things, but again, like you are trying not focus on them. It's not a pity focus, that's a different thing altogether. Anyway, she shifted away and it was really subtle and I could have missed that and to anybody else that wouldn't have been anything that they maybe would have noticed unless they're aware of it. So I said to Natalie, Oh my goodness, I wasn't listening. She just wanted to adjust her body. She says, she did really well and she picked her foot up before I asked for it. I says, yeah, because she knew what was coming. But that's an example of listening. But you get into doing mode, which is what we all do with the best intentions. And my favorite thing is just watching the horses. I'll sit with them, especially evening time. I love it. And at the minute it's summertime and I'll just watch them and listen and I get so much from that because I'm just observing and they communicate all the time. So this podcast is about, horses and communication and intuition and everything else that goes along with that. But it's. so much more because you are part of them and they're part of you and somebody told me once a while ago when i used to get into a bit of a a down and say why can't i do the same as i do for other horses with my own and he said because the flow through you is very similar to Toots so you can't always feel that but because it feels like you and vice versa now that's quite a statement without adding more to it but i can't at this time and so the nearest thing i can explain that to is when you're riding a horse and you're out having a ride and you get into that flow where you know that you're going to be riding a horse and you know that you're going to be riding They just want to go for a gallop or a canter and you start cantering in the field or wherever and you just feel at one with that animal and it could be a few seconds and there's no separation. You feel part of that animal's body because you're moving in sync. That is it. That's the flow. And then you get so excited that you lose it because you get excited and you think, Oh my God, I've got it. Whatever that is. I've got it. I want that back. So you try and it's the trying sometimes because it's more external trying rather than pulling back and just going with that flow again. Does that make sense? Oh,

Susan: 29:54

Absolutely. I totally hear what you're saying. And I love the part about the trying versus pulling back being, because I think at this point I believe that this is every part of our lives. That when we try, we stop being, we can't just be. And I'm not saying don't put effort into things. But there is, a lot of value in stillness and presence, like you were saying, like, like listening to the horses and just being present with them, and there's, there's a lot of value and, I've had these breakthroughs, spiritually and emotionally with just, you know, Being present, and not even just like being in stillness, but my mind is still going, like, I mean, actually just stop. And it does something, it aligns something. I don't know that I have the, the education or the knowledge to really explain what's happening all the time, but what it feels like to me is that like my spirit and my soul and my body are coming into alignment. My body is slowing down or stepping back into alignment with everything else. So that's what it feels like to me.

Ronnie: 31:01

Example as far as I'm concerned. Um, because sometimes your mind has an idea, but if you listen to the quietness what feels right, because sometimes you think, no, I know I should be doing that, and this should be going on, but I don't feel that. So why is that then? It's because you connected to this part, which is the all knowing part of you

Susan: 31:24

right.

Ronnie: 31:25

Sometimes it's hard to put into words. I was trying to give you an example. One example is, this is quite a few years ago. I struggled to get on my horse but I always knew it wasn't just to do about with horses. There was something within me that I needed to overcome. Anyway, I'm going to condense it because, You don't get a whole essay, I had somebody come and help me and he did an amazing job and he did what I needed at that moment, but I still knew I had to do it. Not somebody else, because again, I wasn't trusting myself and. He did help me. I got on my horse and there was all this emotion but it was a little while afterwards and it was a friend actually. She works with the mind and it's the programs that we have in our mind and she helps bypass that and put a slightly different, Programming. That sounded wrong, it sounded like brainwashing, does it? It's not like that at all. It's just bypassing that trigger. There's always a trigger. Oh, I recognize that motion. Let's go there. Don't do that. It's dangerous. We can't do that. Let's stay safe. Let's stay safe. And went out to my horse and I took, I used to take all my things out and not have an agenda. But if she was in the right place and I was, we'd have a go getting on. And getting on, I mean, just swinging my leg over and sitting on my horse and getting off. That was getting on. Anyway, this day I'd usually have, jelly legs. You know, my legs would just go so weak. And I was walking out the field and I thought, Well, I know I should be having jelly legs because my mind's telling me that, but there's nothing there. I'm fine. So I went out to the field. Even though my mind was saying, no, no, you should be feeling nervous by now. I was going, yeah, but I don't because I'd bypass that. It was like, but you should feel nervous. No, but I don't. So basically. I got on my horse too, and it was like, I've done it. I've bypassed that, that little chatter that comes in every time, with the right intentions to start with, but then it gets stuck on replay, replay, replay. So this is what it means when you're listening to this, because it can contradict this. But if you. Recognize your own feel, your own inner guidance, your own truth. You know that that's the right one to listen to. And I'm not talking about fear-based listening there's no agenda there, there's no right or wrong. It's just this. And it's a calmness. And the more you feel that, the more you recognize it. But once you get to know that and your horses know you know that, they give you a quick reminder if you don't stick with it. As you said, Sundance said to you, no, you didn't ask me.

Susan: 34:11

Yeah, absolutely. And when you were talking, I had this sentence pop into my head because I've heard my mentor say it a lot and it's one of my spiritual mentors when he is helping me, work through something or like you said, work through a trigger and bypass that, it almost becomes like an instinct. He usually says, you're thinking too much. You're supposed to be feeling right now, like use your heart, not your head. And that's like, that's a big one. And I've actually started applying that sometimes with my horses you know, when I'm just working with horses. Th ere's kind of two sides of this. There's the side where I'm like, Oh, what's happening in me that's making this come up in them? And then also sometimes it's like, they are also their own being. We're all connected, and also they're their own being. And if I can help them address things, by feeling and not overthinking too much, because some of that is just what horse training is, right? It's like helping them override the instincts, so to speak. And... The best way to keep you safe is to be open to learning new things and feeling new things and not being afraid of them. So there's kinda two sides of it. And then I also thought of something LockHee says sometimes which is, Fear has kept you safe. These triggers, these patterns have built up a safety mechanism in your brain, and this is keeping you safe, right? And so, he says very kindly to the fear, Thank you for your help, I don't need you right now. That's a great line. Yeah, like, thank you and the thing is, if you do that, it all makes sense in your head, you know, it actually starts lining up your heart in your head a little bit and it's like, oh, I see what's happening. I can actually intellectualize it and feel it at the same time in a way and be like, I understand what's happening and I understand that these thoughts are here because my brain slash body thought they needed to be here to keep me safe. And, because, you know, physiologically, it made your legs turn into jelly and is like, no, we can't do this. We're not gonna be safe. And that's just like patting fear nicely on the head and saying thank you for your help in the past.

Ronnie: 36:13

Being friends with your fear. Well, it's part of who you are. It's not somebody else. It's part of you. And like I said, it was there for a reason. It's just when it becomes a prison. that you need to say okay. You know, what's really going on? I'm safe right at this moment in time. So what but it's reprogram yourself to think differently which takes a long time and it's on-going. Definitely ongoing. Um, When you're doing a show what is it You're showing people your relationship, obviously you do demos, don't you, with Sundance?

Susan: 36:56

Yes.

Ronnie: 36:57

Yeah.

Susan: 36:57

So, um, I'll give you the whole overview. Basically, if somebody wants me to be a teacher or a demonstrator or performer at their show, we kind of, we have different options. We've like a few main teaching demos that we'll do. Usually it's in a smaller space like a round pen area, where I teach and those main ones are positive reinforcement made simple because I do use positive reinforcement in my training. The most popular one recently has been, the power of choice in the horse-human relationship. And, oh, what was the other one we did a lot in the past? I think it was foundational liberty. Those are the three main ones that we've done at different events and expos. And those are the teaching, talking demos. And then, I've also done clinics where I help people with their horses. And then I would say our favorite is the performances where we go out and perform Liberty Work II music, and it's like a choreographed freestyle, kind of performance. So I think that's our favorite, both Sundance and I we enjoy that. More recently, she's been having some anxiety around traveling. She's not loving, the trailer rides, and she gets nervous. Some tension, in her body, when we travel sometimes. And so, I've been cutting back on the long trailer rides. She is 24, after all., The furthest we've gone has been a 12 hour drive. Breaks obviously in between. We didn't drive 12 hours straight, but that feels a little too far at this point for her. So I'm trying to cut back for her sake and for mine. I've got a lot going on right now and I just started a new relationship and there's just so much happening in my life. So this summer and fall, I had different things lined up. And. I ended up cutting back and canceling some things for both of our sake. I could feel something else just saying, you know what, I'd like to be home. And we haven't even gotten into like the whole, basically what I call whole horse wellness side of my horsemanship life and my teaching. But that's a big part of what I do with horses as well is. wellness, physical and emotional. So I've been putting a lot of work and time and effort into making my horses space here at home, a place that they really like to be. And I was like, you know what? I put all of this time and money into the space. I would love if my horses would like to stay home and enjoy it. And if the nanny is telling me that she wants to be home. I kind of love that. So, I said okay, and I canceled. A bunch of appearances we were gonna be at. We might travel a little bit, but it's gonna be fairly local, and it's not gonna be, five-hour trailer rides. And maybe they'll come back in the future. But, for right now, where Sundance and I are both at, that's what's feeling right. And

Ronnie: 39:53

To do that is a big thing, especially when you want to show people because you're listening, but it's a big thing. So, yeah, I honor you for doing that, I really do um, we can learn things and we can get wrapped up in wanting to do something um, to show people but then you can get wrapped up in that whole experience as well. But that's human nature. That's part of it. So to step back and to listen to your horse and think, no, I mean, 12 hours, that's probably like going from the top end of England to the bottom. That's a long journey, which I know is not for the States. But she's lucky to be with you and vice versa. I'm just going to see if anybody wants to ask any questions. So if there's anybody would like to ask Susan any questions, that would be lovely and we can share those. Can you see the comments by the way? I should have said to you earlier, are you able to see the comments on your screen? Thank you. I

Susan: 40:51

saw a few, like, as they popped up. Yes.

Ronnie: 40:54

You should have an area where you can actually see, but don't worry about that. So would you like to ask me a question, Susan?

Susan: 41:03

Um, I didn't really think that far. I would love to actually know the where your, um yes, actually, I do have a question. Because we talked on the phone last week or the week before just fairly briefly and you had wonderful things to say about my lovely pony, my lovely pony koa and he's amazing and he's doing better, by the way, because he was having some health issues and he's actually doing a lot better. But I would love to know how you connect with. what I would call, or what it is to you, what I would call, God and the Spirit, and, and it's all connected because I'm so fascinated by the people that I meet that it feels like I'm on the same page with, and we're just slightly different terms. It's so amazing to me when I meet people who they love to listen to horses and communicate with horses, and, It feels like it's all the same thing, and it's all connected. I don't know, maybe it's less of a question and more of an observation, but it's just as amazing to me when I feel that in somebody maybe partly because of my background, and how I was taught in, like, the church I was raised, which is basically, you don't believe exactly this certain way, then you probably,

Ronnie: 42:18

I'm in awe of you really, because of what you do. So for me, sitting here in my little room, I'm thinking, wow, she has such a connection. And it's with your horses, but it's with yourself. So I can see this beautiful woman sat before me. That's blossoming and glowing. And. If that's just the tip of it, who knows where that's going to take you in every direction. But it's about fullness for your life. How you feel and view the world. It's a different place. And we all wake up in the morning as a different person. We're not always the same person we was yesterday. Our cells change, we rejuvenate. But also, uh, Soul is expanding, our intuition, our guidance, so you call that, God. I call it universe, guidance, only because when I was a child, religion was a strong thing and you was forced, so I went totally the opposite way. In fact, I couldn't even say the word. God, because it just reminded me of old programs where it's fine. Now I can say that it's not a problem. But when you talk to people exactly the conversation you've been saying about your own understanding, you're learning about you and everything's connected. That's exactly how I feel. And I think more people are discovering that and we don't have to have the same. view, but we understand that there's another side. It's not about hate or or making somebody do something they don't want to do. It's having an equal partnership. It's having a voice and some don't have voices. So, it's being the voice for that other hence equine voices, um, and you don't have to be perfect and you don't have to get it right and they don't expect you to get it right. Animals, Do not expect you to be perfect. And in fact, the first thing they say is they want you to sort your life out. Sort yourself out because how can you help me if you can't help yourself? How can you love me? If you can't love yourself, how can you accept me? If you can't accept yourself and that's with. Every aspect, as you said, your shadows, your imperfections, but these are part of you. And if you're ashamed of them, I don't know why I'm talking like this, so I'm obviously channeling. Um, it's part of you, you're denying. Horses don't deny any part of them. They're all different, so they might go through the motions because they know going through the motions means I get a meal at the end of the day, I get a rest. That might be their life. Who's to say that that's not what they want? Wishful at that moment. And it's the same as my view of a horse should have the freedom to come and go, not shut in, but that's my view. And so I do my very best to do that, but I am limited to the land. So in the UK, having a bit of land where you can do that is a luxury because you're not able to do that certain places because it's a premium. So if you can have your horses out 24 seven. That's a bit of a luxury. Some horses might not want to do that for other reasons. I don't think it's because they want to go in necessarily, but they may want to be with the herd that goes in. If they're out in the field and herd are going in, they want to be in because they want to be close to the herd. It's not always quite the way we perceive it to be. People say my horse wants to be in this table. They may do, but they may actually want to come in for other reasons. It's about having choices. And if you are able to give your horses choices, then you should be proud of that. It might not be the perfect life that you'd like for them, but it's the best that you can do at that time. I must be talking about this because there might be somebody listening to this conversation for that reason, but you shouldn't beat yourself up because at that moment you're doing your very best with what you have and your means. Um I used to laugh years ago, my previous horse, I would have shoes with holes in because I couldn't afford new shoes, but I needed shoes for my horse. My horse now doesn't have shoes. She's barefoot because that's the way I'm going now. But it doesn't mean to say every horse should be barefoot. It might be for some reason a horse needs a shoe at that moment, but that's, that's a whole nother podcast. So it's just about being. With what you've got at that moment, assessing the situation, listening, and what's right now today. Don't stick at it and think that's it. Because it will change as we change, as they physically change, as we emotionally change, they emotionally change too. It's an ongoing thing. You never get it right. oherwise it's always changing you get glitches and you get moments when it's like I just want to put this in a box this very, very moment, would it be as precious if it was exactly the same the whole time? Who knows?

Susan: 47:27

Oh, absolutely not.

Ronnie: 47:29

Does that answer your question?

Susan: 47:32

Yes, it does. And it was, it was, it was what I was feeling, but I don't know why I necessarily needed to ask it, but it was what I was feeling. So it was perfectly aligned with what I was feeling, which is great. I would love to add something to what you were saying about the horse is not expecting us to be perfect and rather is wanting us to do what we can within our means at the time. Is it okay if I add something to that? I had this experience. For the last few years. Some horses in my herd. who are metabolic. My little pony painted dreams. She foundered when I was young. And so I need to be careful with them. And, I have been working on building a paddock track system, if you're familiar with that, for them. And they love it. I know that I'm sure they would prefer to be able to go out on giant fields. I don't have access to that for them. We have one pasture and it has beef cattle on it, and I don't have access to, large fields that I can monitor and make sure that they're not gonna, overdo it or overeat or whatever. Like, so, they have a paddock track system, and they love it, but I constantly, for the past two years since starting it, have been beating myself up about not having it perfect. Like, there's still an area that gets muddy when it rains, and I would just love it would all be fully, surfaced, and... None of it would ever get muddy, and I'm not there yet. And there was a time this spring when I went out and it had rain, so there was muddy areas, and I wasn't staying after the poo picking as well as I wanted to be, and I was depressed about it, and I was finding myself going out to the barn and getting, angsty about it, and it wasn't peaceful. And this one day when this was happening, a few of the horses came up to me and I felt them just telling me, We would rather you just be here with us, than trying to make everything perfect. I just felt them telling me that, and I don't even remember exactly like, how it was worded, because it was more of a feeling, it was just like, They really just wanted me to be present there, and like they aren't asking me to make it all perfect, and I still have goals for my track system, I still have goals for making my horses' lives better all the time, because that's just what we do as horse people, if we're this invested, like, it's never gonna stop. I want it to be better. All the time. And more enrichment, and more enjoyment for my horses. And just more things for them to live the best life they could possibly live. But, that was an eye-opener for me. Cause my horses just really straight up came and asked me to please, Stop freaking out that I wasn't being perfect for them. That's it. That's communication, girl. You've got it in one. There you go. So, you've answered your own question. Perfect. So we've got a couple of questions. Gail says, what was the most significant breakthrough for you? That's Gail from Canada. Hmm. I'm not sure what it's in reference to. I don't know if it was in reference to a certain thing we were talking about in the conversation, or do you think she means just in general, like overall?

Ronnie: 50:31

Just in general, but I think you probably did answer that. Yeah, I think you talked about that. Yeah,

Susan: 50:36

I think I did talk about that. That's why I wanted to clarify. Actually, I have a good answer. I don't know if this is the same, because I feel like there was a few really big breakthroughs for me, but I know one of the big ones was, this was after I had been performing with Sundance. We were traveling from, Pennsylvania to Kentucky to Ohio, different places. Performing and teaching and Sundance said, I don't want to do this and she was repeatedly showing me that this isn't what she wanted to do and I know now that it was because I was just fully immersed in performing and I was fully trying to be something that we weren't, like, I was trying to make sure everything was portrayed perfectly, choreography and our performances had to be on point and down to the second, and I was being really specific with things, and Sundance is very, she will happily do what I ask. But she has to know why and I didn't even know why we were doing it because I was just listening to the constant go, go, go and, and perform. And so I think that was a huge breakthrough for me was realizing that, if I'm doing this in a performance mindset or a performance spirit, which performance. In this context, I'm talking about either trying to make things appear a certain way, or performing something that's not really there, like, it's inauthentic, it's incongruent, that's what I'm talking about in this context with performance, because I've gotten in trouble in the past for bashing the word performance a little bit, just like in the horse industry, and In people in general, talking about performance triggers people a little bit because usually then the people who are in the performance sides of the horses get offended if you say that performance is bad. So I'm not talking about showing, although there's things I can say about showing that we all would love to see change, but I think that was a big, big breakthrough for me was Of the performance mindset and realising that honestly like if you go to a show like that and you see somebody do a performance, do like a Liberty freestyle demonstration, any kind of demonstration like that. It feels a lot more authentic. If it's not completely perfect because like, no performance I've ever done has been perfect and I have more people coming up to me after. One's where, Sundance is out there at Liberty and if she leaves and then comes back, more people will come and comment on that afterwards than if she doesn't leave at all. Because they'll be like, it was really cool how you brought her back or it was really cool that I heard you talk in your demo this morning about how you want her to have a choice and then I saw in your performance tonight that she ran off and then came back and saw you give her the choice. So, more people connect with it because it's, it's real. Thank you. If you're not doing it out of like a performance spirit.

Ronnie: 53:31

Yeah. Being authentic, as you said, and Gail says, wonderful, thank you. We'll have one more question and then I think we'll finish off. Sam says, who's influencing you? I think she means now. You've obviously talked about Lockie, I know you've done a podcast with, but he's not out yet, is it?

Susan: 53:48

I feel like based on the timeline that I figured out just because I was getting a little bit anxious to know when it was happening. So I figured out how long from recording to release it was for a lot of his podcasts. And I think it should be literally one of these next weeks. So I'm crossing my fingers for it. But yes, Lockheed, it's been huge. The things I've learned from Lockheed, even in the last several months, he invited me to come down to a clinic he did in Maryland. So it was in person. He had me come down as his guest and he was just incredible. And I learned so much from him. So definitely Lockheed. it feels like there's this long line of people who influenced me throughout my life and my horsemanship journey. And it kind of led me to a place now where I'm not necessarily learning from just one person. There's different people that I pull threads of information and education from and just inspiration and people that I feel a connection to. Thank you. And then things start flowing and I learn things and a lot of these people are on social media and they probably have no idea I even exist and I just quietly watch and learn. So yeah, Lockie is a great follow. If your listeners are looking for somebody just in general, his business is emotional horsemanship and he embodies that very well.

Ronnie: 55:06

Yeah, I came across Lockie from Warwick Schiller's, podcast and listened to, although I haven't listened to it for a while, I listen to it, quite frequently in the car usually.

Susan: 55:18

Yeah, Warwick is amazing as well.

Ronnie: 55:21

Yes, there's lots of different people that are, at things in a different way and Warwick is a good example because he said he's completely different horse person now to what he used to do and how he used to train horses. But, um, yeah Lockie was going to be a guest, but I had to cancel it for some reason, so I've just got to chase him up and arrange another one. Right, okay. So Gail, could you name some of them? Name

Susan: 55:48

some of the influences, probably that I've said have been like in my life. So the Liberty trainer that I saw when I was 17, that was at the Horse World Expo, his name is Luke Gingrich, and I will happily give him a shout out, because he's amazing at what he does. I would say our styles are pretty different now, and our approach to horsemanship is a little different now, but I still really support what he's doing, because I see him making a really big difference in the horse industry, and, that was like a gateway drug for me. So I will never not be appreciative of that. Even though, I learned a ton from him and now we're kind of going slightly different ways. I will always give honor to him for that because that, that was a huge piece of my journey. And then Kaylee Marie is another one. She's, from Rhode Island. She is also into liberty work, her style is kind of incorporating like classical dressage and biomechanics and that kind of thing into her liberty training, so a lot of postural training and, quote unquote correct movement and she's has a big emphasis on that. Warwick has also been a huge, a huge influence for me, and I actually got to meet him at the Horse World Expo this year, so, fun fact, Horse World Expo, when I was 17, where I first met Luke, and saw him perform with his horse, do the liberty thing, so, so, Six years later, was this past March, and I got to perform with Sundance in the very same big, expo night show that I had seen him perform in six years before that. And that was amazing. It was like such a full circle moment. It was incredible. And Warwick was there at the event as a clinician, and just by, like, crazy, god thing, wild happenstance. Warwick's booth was next to mine, in the trade show, and I got to chat with Warwick, and here's how we met, and this is me being like, little Amish fangirl. I walked into my booth one day, and he comes up to the barrier between our two booths, and he's like, Hi, I'm Warwick and he introduced himself and he's like, I saw your demo yesterday. That was incredible. We were doing like the positive reinforcement made simple demo and Warwick was watching and I had no idea. I'm really glad I didn't know that he saw it because I fangirl over Warwick because you know, he's incredible. And like you said, the difference between, The horseman he used to be and how he works with horses now is kind of wild, and I've learned a lot from him, so, and yeah, I would say those are probably the four main ones, actually, Luke Gingrich, Hayley Marie, Warwick Schiller, and Lockie.

Ronnie: 58:28

Thank you, I hope that answers your question, Gayle, I'm sure it has. Well, Susan, it's been a pleasure chatting with you. But I do feel that we just scratched the surface and it would be lovely to have you back again now you see how it works and maybe put some slides on Sundance and your Shetland.

Susan: 58:46

So I have Dream, who is my tiny little, sorry, not my tiniest one, Dream is my miniature Shetland, and then I have a dwarf mini pony called Koa.

Ronnie: 58:55

Oh yeah, yeah.

Susan: 58:56

And then I have Lyric, my quarter horse.

Ronnie: 58:59

We could do some slides and things, but would you like to come back and have a chat again sometime?

Susan: 59:06

Absolutely. Absolutely. I would love that.

Ronnie: 59:08

It's been lovely. And I know you had a few little glitches. And the thing is, it's technology and you don't know whether it's going to work or not, but I'm glad it did so is there anything you'd like to say to the viewers, the listeners before you go? Any words of encouragement, that you'd like to add?

Susan: 59:24

I think, if I were to leave the listeners with something, it would just be, listen to your horses. Listen to yourself and maybe make an extra effort today to be present.

Ronnie: 59:37

That's perfect, girl. Perfect. Thank you so much. So I'm going to just pop you out, Susan, if you don't mind just waiting so I can say bye personally before you go. Absolutely. So say bye to the viewers.

Susan: 59:50

Bye guys.

Ronnie: 59:53

Lovely young woman, absolute pleasure. And, oh my goodness, if I had half the talent that she has in my little finger that would be awesome. Isn't it funny how you look to people and they look at you in one way and you look at them in another. lovely, lovely lady and I can't wait to chat to her again. I will post links to her website. If you have any questions that you'd like to ask Susan directly, then please do so, or I can pass them on for you. I hope you've enjoyed this conversation. Thank you for the people that joined and your questions. I shall be around again soon with another podcast. Until then thank you very much, take care and bye for now.