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Equine Voices Podcast
Equine Voices Podcast
Interview with Pat Cleveland - Kathy Price - Frank Fraser (part one)
An interview with three, very different people (with a similar work ethos) who all have something in common . . . Horses.
I am so excited about this interview! Three individuals that have never met before but have recently been introduced to each other through a podcasts I had previously done.
It goes without saying (as you will hopefully come to realise in this episode) they have more in common than just horses.
So sit back, relax and I hope you enjoy this enlightening episode.
Video version (alongside applicable podcasts) can be viewed on facebook and YouTube.
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Contact Ronnie.
mailto:equinevoicesronnie@gmail.com
Good evening and welcome to equine voices voices this is an interview with Pat Cleveland and Cathy price, Pat has got her partner Frank with her so I've told them they've got to be on their best behavior, so it should be a fun interview. I'm just going to introduce them they're going to give you a little quick introduction because this is my third interview but the first time with both of them fingers crossed, okay I'm just going to bring them both in and hopefully everything's going to go smoothly. Welcome Pat and Kathy so Kathy shall I let you go first, just do a little brief introduction on your work.
Kathy:Thank you very much and thank you for having us and organizing this Ronnie cause it's such fun. My name is Kathy price and my work is called Point of Balance uh it's a modality that's purely energetic and the way I see it working is it conditions the field so it helps whoever or whatever I'm working with, whether it's a personal horse, a dog cat, whatever it helps them find their way back to balance, which we're balanced equates to Health I believe that every system innately wants to move back to balance but things get in the way and so when I work, I don't need to know anything about what's wrong with the system. In fact, I prefer not to because I'm making it easy for them to find what they need to move back into balance, I can't make it happen but I'm a facilitator and that's the way I work, I work in person and at distance and obviously the last 18 months it's been all distance for obvious reasons, but yes that's that's me and I'm point of balance.
Ronnie:Thank you very much Kathy that was great, so Pat would you like to do a little introduction.
Pat:Okay, well, I'm pat Cleveland. This is my husband Frank Frazier, and we are both horse people we're both very energetic and intuitive we work in the physical realm of riding and training horses and along the way, horses began to open up, a line of conversation that started to, bring out information that's not available in books or videotapes from teachers in schools. We applied that information and before we know it we came up with a new approach to human interspecies interactions based on body symmetry and how that solves the problems that people are experiencing in their animal relationships. So Frank is my partner we came up with patterns in of trauma that can be found in all living form and we use the universal power, it's not about us doing the work it's actually, we facilitate the regeneration restoration or rebirthing of the physical form to its genetic potential of body symmetry. When we work with horses and this occurs, we get a brand new horse, brand new attitude who helps to expand the connection between us and the holistic nature of our origin, so we have a business called the bounce horse project and we work here at our farm with animals that come in as well as do long distance consultation and training sessions. Pat that was brilliant, so why don't we start and say how this all Started, how are we here tonight, why are we here tonight. I think Ronnie you're the facilitator of that one you got in touch with me first and I was that before you'd been in touch with pat?
Ronnie:No, I got in touch with Pat, she popped up on Facebook on Balanced Horse Project and I had an it look and then I thought how many she wants to do an interview. I messaged her and to my surprise, it was literally was it same day I think that she messaged back to say, I've been asking the universe for somebody to interview me and literally I got your message, so the answer's yes I was like, yeah. So that was our first introduction do you want to take her Pat and say, why did you want to be interviewed what was it that you needed to get out there.
Pat:I had, two primary requests first was to have a bigger, stronger, clearer voice into the mainstream world because I work in the horse world and they're very wonderful people but what my gifts are, are energetic, empathic, intuitive, and reach beyond the common experience of the horse owner and I was looking for a way to get information about what we have unraveled and its potentials out to the public. I mean, it's just sitting here quietly, working away on a little farm in Dothan, Alabama, and, and it's kind of like the best kept secret and you just, you like a pot then in, in, you've got to blow the lid off the top of the pot, well that's about where I'm at, you know, like could we please reach forward? And then the other request I had was to meet people who are like-minded to find my tribe so that the conversation I want to express is not suppressed by the fear of maybe breaking somebody's, concept of understanding or pushing people away. You mean hurting their feelings, so I just wanted to have the freedom to have a voice and to express the non-verbal experiences that animals have brought into our life and the information that comes with that conversation and how it could reach out and be a huge benefit to anybody else, who's looking for answers and can't find them. So then you showed up, so be careful what you ask for, because sometimes you get these gifts and then you meet another group people, which I straight after meeting Ronnie I had another experience and I'm just like, I'm not wholly jumping, it really happened, I'm not ready for that. And then it's layers and layers or and then I guess Kathy heard the interview with you and ran across a couple of other people and there was this common topic of conversation. We had a two and a half hour conversation.
Ronnie:So then we get to how I met Kathy again, we explain this in the previous interview with Kathy, because I also run a intuitive development Evening online and again that's something else I've been pushed into, it's not something that was in my radar. It's not something that I was really thinking about doing but a good friend said, you know, you should be doing this and I was like, but that's not my passion you know, it's not, that's not me. She said no, you've got to diversify, this more things that you should be doing, not just this. So I thought okay, so I put it out there and then I got a group of people that I sort of knew anyway and we've carried on, we meet every week or every other week and we'd just do meditation and see what comes through but we stuck together and it's like a little online family and then I've got another group, which is only small group, so this is all new and because I already started doing live videos on a closed group and it's really talking about your feelings and just talking about anything and being honest with your emotions, I found I actually quite liked it, I quite like the person that I saw and that sounds really silly, I'm not saying this vainly or egotistical, but when I saw her speak from the heart, I saw another the person, confident person. And I thought I like her and that sounds really bizarre maybe to some people um but it's like listening to another person, it's not like the old me now, it is me obviously, but it's like, where does she come from, she'd been hiding all these years, um I tried to do it by recording but you can be very critical and you can delete it and start again and you're always you're always looking for perfection and that's not what this is about. When to do animal communication, whatever comes I talk as it comes and that's important, so the same with these interviews, it's I don't want it to be staged. I don't want it to be, you know, obviously we have a bit of a agenda I could take off cause we'd always stick to it but Hey, um, so yes, basically I started doing this, um, and then one of the ladies posted something on intuitive group and she got a picture of something on her, on her spectacles and it was tiny, tiny droplets. And it was Five o'clock in the morning when I looked at it and I was like, okay, I'll S I'll look at that in the morning. And when I looked the it one, I looked properly when I woke up, it was five dots in a row in perfect line and when you zoomed into the photograph, it was like the ying yang symbol, so I said, oh, it probably means balance, you know, we're getting into balance or, and it, because you saw it it's really to do with you. Um, but then later I was looking at Kathy's site, it popped up and I thought, I'd just see what the reviews are and when I put the review page on, there was five symbols of ying yang that was on my screen at the time. And I thought, wow, that's the synchronicity you don't ignore. So I literally emailed Kathy to say, You don't know me I'd like to know a little bit more about what you do I think I said, I've got something to tell you, but I don't know what it is, something like that. And so that was that bit Kathy, you can take over from you.
Kathy:Well I received this lovely email saying, which I think there was a line in it that sort of says, I'm e mailing you but I'm not quite sure why and I love emails like that because it's like you said, it's the intuition, the following the field that you do, you do that. Then we got in contact with amazing chats and you straight away brought a message from teasel, you know, just as we were chatting and what was interesting for me is my mare teasel over the years that I've had, I've had a six years within three months of having a, I was sitting. Writing automatic writing, when I sat with her, she was just giving me information, like time is a human construct and we can change this and we can do that. I mean, I didn't know what I was writing at the time and then when you gave me that message from teasel, it was the same way of speaking that she's spoken to me before and again, I think we've said this before, am I getting information from there, is she bringing it through I'm not sure, but the style was so similar to pages and pages that I've written that I was so entranced by that and that was wonderful and then, you know, I said, can I do it session with Toots and we went on from there because she found it helpful.
Ronnie:Toots was diagnosed with shivers and last winter she had a little bit of mud fever which cleared up but she was struggling, she couldn't turn in one direction and her normal action is when she lifts her leg up, it's a quick judder and then that's it that's what she's always done for quite a few years but the farrier was struggling to lift a leg up and bless and she was so good with it, so I said, I'm gonna do clicker with her and just focus on mind and she was starting to do it intermittently, she was still struggling but she was focusing what was being asked of her and then I think it was, it was a few days later she was still struggling so Kathy kindly offered to do a treatment uh, session and it was so funny because she says I'll do it at two o'clock, so I went down to Toots sat outside and Toots it's came down and she sort of dozed off a bit and licking into it and then she walked off and then Kathy texted me, says, right. I'm about to start, So I burst out laughing saying, well, Toots new, you started in half an hour ago, cause she's already walked off so she was aware. I think that was a Friday and the next day when it went down, I was doing her legs and I thought I'm sure this is easier I wasn't looking at the things that weren't there, I thought I'm sure there's improvement and then I think it was three days later and I went to do her legs and she literally lifted her leg and there was no shiver no judder and she was comfortable for me to hold her leg I thought she's never done that in all the time I've had this since she's got progressively worse, that's not happened and she doesn't stand square, she stands with her feet sort of underneath a slightly but she almost had a scissor action, she was getting further and further apart because that was more comfortable. I said too, it's like acknowledge what you've just done and when I went down later did it again clean two feet out, no spasm, no high lift and I thought, okay, I notice that again, too. It's well done, holy Moses, I've never had that result, I have had lots of results in different areas but the shiver part, the spasm was always something that was still be there. Um, so I text Kathy and I sent some photos and she was stood in a stable, in a shelter because she's out 24 seven, she has a shelter and she was stood vertical at the back and I was like, She's vertical. She's got both feet together, so I was amazed and then when the farrier come she's said how is she, I says you tell me and I'll tell you afterwards and she said she's really a lot, lot better and I could do a feet I says, yes. So then I told her what had happened, she was like, okay. So for me that was like, wow but then I forgot to say to, Toots it's, I was so excited that I was looking for more improvements each day, I thought, you know what that's the best she's ever been as far as that, there was all this stuff that was adjusting but the shiver was the biggest dramatic change for me and then I stopped acknowledging and saying, I can see a difference, I think it was a few weeks later, I thought, oh, I can see signs again, and I thought, oh, don't do that, don't start to look for things just, I'm aware that when the body changes, you can't do it all in one go. So where am I today there is a slight spasm, but she's not where she was before Kathy did some work with her by any means, but even the tiniest improvement, I'm acknowledging it because she's looking for me now, one day I went in the shelter and she was starting to stand a bit different again and I thought, oh, crikey, stop doing that so I said to Toots, Toots it's I know you felt what it's like your body to change and you felt it and you recognized it I said, you can do that again because you did it once, you can do it again but it's your choice and she turned around and looked at me and she put her legs together, then I walked out as said thank you. I still have lots of questions and it's still an ongoing thing.
Frank:As long as you're manifesting good things, good things were happening but when you listen to the gin in your ear and a little bit of doubt, caused you to question
Ronnie:I just want to confirm it's no doubt in Kathy's capability or anybody's capability, I'm well aware it's my own doubts and my own energy, that adds.
Pat:We are the only species that can talk ourselves, we are so intellectual that we talk ourselves out of good things, that's how smart we are. Another observation, in the statement that you refer back to muscle memory, pulling us back into trauma and that things move incrementally and that it can't be resolved all at once, I would come back with a question to you why, we work together, we shift whole bodies as one unit. And when you solve the core physical block so that the energy can flow through the vessel in its most efficient way, then there's no muscle memory because there's no trauma left to create the memory except for the owners own.
Ronnie:I believe in my my world, whatever's going on with me, she's very good at reflecting it back and telling me to sort myself out and I've learned through the years, if I don't, it reflects in her because they mirror us.
Frank:I got a feel full of mirrors right now, we were discussing that this morning, we're sitting here having coffee look out down and sudden and went now, you know what, yeah, it's just absolutely fantastic to have a field full of horses yet, we do nothing with that, they're just enjoying their lives. They're a bunch of older horses anyway now and she goes, yeah, it is. We're just happy to have horses that way, yeah because if we didn't we'd be killing each other.
Pat:I think Kathy has a similar philosophy about not being the healer but just being like a magnet that kind of focuses where the energy should be flowed towards or opening up the channel between the human or the horse with the higher, higher resource situation that we have available and I think it's really powerful because people we are in a different dimension. Here we go down Pats rabbit hole, but we're in a different way of, of understanding information. And we intersect with energy on a completely different angle. So if you think of a back tracing of a horse, almost looks like a sound wave and we're standing vertical in that energy flow of the horse. So how we project our intention, what our ego is saying, what are own personal states of imbalance really are when it goes through that wave of energy, that's horizontal intersects with us. It takes our information in and reflects it or mirrors it onto the animal. Or the people around us or the environment or the experiences that we're going to attract to ourselves.
Frank:Well, that's like when people talk to plants, the plants grow, it's the same thing with the horses that people, I mean, if you, if you that spiritual bond with them, if your intent is good, it will happen.
Pat:I have to know what the problem is, you just have to hold the intention of being shown and maybe pull in the intention of whatever is needed to resolve the problem and it doesn't have to be physical action okay but you can pull in that potential energy, that potential solution for that animal or individual that's powerful.
Frank:If you worry constantly every day about something bad you're going to manifest that show up at your front door.
Kathy:I'm just not in my head cause you know, everything pat was saying there that we have such similarity in the way that we work because my principles are change can happen faster than the speed of light and you only need one session. That's the way I work so as you said that I don't say a treatment because I don't know what's wrong or what, you know, what has caused any imbalance in the system at all it could be emotional, it could be physical, it could be spiritual, it could be all three and I know nothing, there's the system knows everything. So that's my sort of philosophy is that, I say to everybody. You only need one session from my perspective, if you choose to come back to me and this has been something that's happened recently where people have seen big change and then they've said, well, I just feel it's time for something else. I was working with, um, a lady in Australia and the other one was a horse, so it was I think it's time, there's another lair and that's absolutely fine but my whole ethos is poof done and in fact that's sort of the length of the session, is more indicative of the human condition. It was interesting what you were saying about why can't a system change at once. You know, you were saying the muscle memory and everything, which I totally get but we've been taught all healings hard, it's really hard to get better oh you can get this bit better oh you know, it's always been made to be the suffering side of it, which is not the, literally anything anybody goes through but it's a mindset as well. What you were saying, Frank you know, if you step into that, oh life is so blooming hard, hallelujah, guess what it's gonna be and for me, the system knows what it needs and stuff gets in the way. It's the perception, it's the experience, it's the patterns, you know, with humans, animals is if they've been, you know, treated in a certain way that's what they expect and it can be a blockage but the answer is there and so with Pat saying exactly the same sort of thing, it's reminding the system of where that balance is. It's getting so spooky with me so many times now that I know that I've only got to set the intention and stuff happens. In some ways in sometimes I don't even have to be there at all and so I knew that that session was at two o'clock I'd booked it in at two o'clock, but somewhere along the line, I'd gone to half past too but my intention was two o'clock with Toots and she said yeah, thank you. Then my human side went, oh, it's half past two and that's what happens and I've had it happen before exactly the same way, and I recently put a video up of all the horses joining in, my intention was on one horse and basically I'd walked down the track I'd seen this horse, I knew I wanted to give him a session. His owner said you better do it sooner rather than later cause he's not in a good place. I then went back to the car I said right, I'll do it today, went back to the car, came back. The horse was already in the space, I haven't sort of gone right in now we're going to start work. That horse was there, my intention was there, the host was there and then four other horses joined in and it's magical, absolutely magical. Just of the human runs ahead of the conscious act of human, this is a scientifically proven fact, so that the intention that you science into this again. The subconscious runs a head of the timeline that we're in the future and I also have found that animals themselves and so the perception that we set on ourselves as time is irrelevant because it's the projection, the intention that you had originally, it was already in the horses timeline. The picture that the horse has of what they are capable of receiving is already overlaid in their present consciousness. Now this gets really for some people but when I work, I fold the past trauma after the future and I'm, I merged it into the present timeline, energy stream of the horse and I see those layers but the horse doesn't experience those layers until I introduce a concept to them, I don't see a future. They don't see a future. They have muscle memory the significant triggers of pain, which they relate to past behavior patterns but they don't really hold the concept of time, it's just everything is present, so when we set a time for the animal it's irrelevant, it's the intention that supersedes the concept of time, because time doesn't exist.
Ronnie:Which is what we're taught more and more yeah.
Pat:We're kind of taught a lot of things but we don't always do it and it's like, I keep wondering, I mentioned in my conversation with Kathy like if we're vertical consciousness, if we're highly intellectual beings on a vertical scale and we're functioning as aliens in a horizontal energy stream and everything else is in a horizontal energy stream, why were we created. Why are we here and why does everything hold the genetic memory of being symmetrical. Why is it that animals cannot solve their own problems but when you have a human, whether it's a physical, inner tension, energy medicine, or an empathic intuitive intervention, or just being present, okay or we just have that presence. We're the key to eliminating pain and suffering and we are taught to expect the pain and suffering instead of moving into the position of preventing it so that there is no need for pain and suffering and that's the position that I work from as a horse trainer. I would rather take my skillsets and teach it to people who are like-minded and start to unwind the mysteries of the horse, which we've documented. Why we have pain and suffering in horses, well if we reverse that pattern, Do we have horses that go through pain and suffering in performance or in their lives and is that pain and suffering passed on to the next generation of horses. That's the conversation I would love to bring in to horse training. People want what I do to fix damaged horses and I can respect that but my position has taken me from that into, can we shift how we interact at the very beginning to be preventative. The problem is is that people want her to fix the horse and then they go back and repeat the same thing again. So you fix the horse, it's just over and over and it's a different system because we're talking about energy intention and how that energy is conducted and carried through the physical form in the systems that we work with in everyday life is biology and chemistry, and it has no connection, number one to energy and number two, it's in a system that has dissected everything into a special conversation, with a special function in language and what we're doing is we're progressively unplugging the life force of every living life form out of a holistic, energetic and conscious system that actually supports our lives. Whether we choose or not to accept it, we're here for a reason. You know, the experiences that we've had with horses before I ever started trying to document them, were off the wall and they didn't make sense and you can really speak.
Frank:We got people that come here and they can't believe how we just walk up and talked to our horse it's just like we're talking to a kid just, you're not really, you're going to do that. And the horse just stand and look at you and just obviously go like, ah, you said, really, you need to just walk on down the aisle. Wait, go get you stall and behave, then you see the horse just walk down the hallway, go get the stall. And everybody goes, how you, how are they doing that? And I go, just talk to them like you talk to anybody they know.
Ronnie:So tell me where you and Kathy are now because Kathy, you contacted Pat and then we did a long conversation, which I did look to been a fly on the wall, so tell me what's come from that and teasel.
Kathy:Well, it was exactly as you said Pat when I heard your first conversation with Ronnie, it was like hallelujah, another tribe member, I hear you and I just had to get in touch because there was so many synchronicities, so many commonalities with the way you were speaking and when you were describing how the energetic formation of laminitis, it was like, oh my God, I've got to talk to this lady, so that's what we did for two and a half hours. Yes so my mare teasel she's a very interesting, she's a Spanish mare premier I've had a six years and she came straight from the breeder to me so she had been very lightly started but there was no other sort of major intervention and she hadn't been trained or anything like that. And looking back now, I realized that her structure has been compromised right from the start, when I start looking at photos with a different eye, I can see. So she basically is elephant on a ball stance with all four legs together, she's 10 now, she's been croup hi all of her life, which I know they say some Iberians can be that way, but you do wonder what the cause is now but anyway, at the beginning of this year, I just got this insight she was like telling me, we're going to find the answer and 11 days later a trimmer came, changed her feet slightly for the first time in her life. She was level I've actually got photos of a spirit level on her because she literally within a week had changed shape. And I knew that that was the first part, it wasn't the everything but it was the first part and then she's at a rehab center now, the reason being that I've got to track here but she was standing still too much, you needed more movement, so she's gone down to this amazing rehab where they've got two miles of track and she's got a Spanish boyfriend, which has made her very, very happy, very happy, those two were always hanging out and there's the lady who's knows the Herb's knows everything inside out, which is brilliant but there's still something there and so when Pat and I were talking, it was like Pat please Pat. So we're just on the next stage of that, that, I've asked Pat to take Teasel and I on as a client and I've just sent her photos today, the one she needed to see, you know, this is the ground zero at the moment to see where she goes from here and what we see, so yeah, we had an amazing conversation. I mean, I can't think what subject and you didn't actually cover. but we have got a transcript. Yes. We're not quite sure where it's going to lead us are We Pat I have already set the pictures, she knows where she's going.
Pat:So Teasel came to you from a breeder, so there was really no serious, physical insult to her as in this time and she is like all horses and like all people she's carrying inherited trauma. Now you go what is inherited trauma. There was a study done in the 1960s, I think it ended in the 1980s, maybe it was 1950 to 1980 where the chiropractors and they looked at women and confirmation imposture in people, say I fell down a flight of stairs and twisted my back and then I went out as a mother and had children, well, my injury posture is transferred, in printed, physically onto the offspring. So there's a difference between genetic information and the imprinting of trauma and that took me to birth trauma, they realized that from the mother, the mother's posture of injury is imprinted on the offspring and that is then in printed. Further on the next generation so now if you have somebody that goes out and plays foot ball and he's paired with his wife and his hips are twisted and his back is not straight, that is going to influence the birth canal of the mother, so now we have layers of trauma from life experiences. It gets more interesting because in the horse world, we do interventions when we train a horse and he can't turn to the left, well you know we put pulleys and inject hocks et cetera, et cetera and we try to make it so the horse can do the work but we're not really looking at the inability to do work as the symptom of a preexisting state of trauma, which is imprinted at birth and until we get our thinkers on and realize that we need to go back to the point of the first injury in the horse's body and reverse that pattern of inherited trauma, we are just layering and layering and layering information, trauma information. Onto the structure of horses into the genetic memory of horses, it does not change the genetics but it's in the process of how that horse is going to develop. It is definitely passed from mother to her offspring. So Freud was right, everybody blames your mother some point in time. So in Teasels case, she's all locked up because in the broken Spanish schools a long time ago, it was caging the front end and asking the horse to sit down. But maybe her eye ancestors at some time were war horses and went through trauma and then they, you know you breed an injured horse right, so they bred injured horses and they produced consistently at this point in modern times, we have the majority of horses that are on a downhill slope, downhill horses. So the butts high and the shoulders are pulled underneath and the hindquarter stick out behind the horse and the they the head up or the slope the head down, depending on the horse and that's describing primary training postures that we're struggling with and if we could go back and look at the inherited quality of confirmation posture, I forget the genetics like, oh, you know, I bred to this champion news champion. Forget that part that, that's there and I can't alter that but what I can do is open up the electrical circuit, so the energy, the life force moves through that horses body can actually move through in a quick, efficient and straight line, versus wobbling from left to right and it's all lopsided, you got one high foot and one low foot and the barrel is off centered. So it sways one way, you got one high shoulder and one puffy shoulder and the hip is crooked, so it all goes back to what we are doing with have our interventions because we're now compounding, natural inherited trauma with manufactured, inherited trauma. And even if we just forget all of it and just go back to the primary injury of the horse body, everything spontaneously as Kathy says at the speed of light speed of sound, it all self-corrects, that's where that's where the magic is. It's so interesting what you were saying Pat because I think I told you, and maybe you as well Ronnie, that when teaser first came to me and a wonderful cranial sacral, osteopath who also did healing had also done shamanic came to work with her teaser would not let her touch her to begin with she's absolutely squealed and cat, okay, there's something going on here and she sort of communicated with her and she said basically part of Teasels path is about resolving the trauma of the Spanish horses. So what you said was so absolutely on it because she said I can see broken bodies beneath that, you know, the horses after in war and the bull fights and the Spanish horses were always the ones, you know that the princess rode and rode into battle and things like that apart from the training side of it. And so that is part of her path and I know what another Spanish horse, again, she's brought forward this as well. So what you're saying makes so much sense in that her body is completely twisted up because of all that trauma and it's the resolving of that trauma in her body, which will help resolve the ancestral. When we breed horses for specific traits And this is not to insult anybody who breeds horses but when you get a horse with a specific trait in it excels at a certain type of sport or a certain type of work description, we, we layer breeding like type horses together to create a breed. Now the question is, is body symmetry a standard feature in genetics and does it supersede, breeding like tight horses together, which are actually horses with a similar type of life or inherit to the injury, so which one supersedes the other, that's where I'm at with my questioning now. So I can take a standard bred pacing horse and influence the mare and she will produce a pretty amazing offspring and that horse will start into a developmental work with a trainer, I will go back and reinforce the release of that natural energy and the horse doubles his muscle mass in 120 days and goes through his training process about six weeks ahead of his direct siblings. We've done this several times, so we keep layering the release of that imprinted or inherited trauma and we start to produce an upgrade, the quality of horse, the quality of life for the horse and the interact as if they are equally intellectual. This is a problem for a lot of people they react equally intellect in consciousness, sentient, as you or I. I can have a conversation either with word or without word with a horse and horses here will come in from the field with just like maybe halter broke and what did we do, we sent one to Kathy and she rode it in the round pin, like just halter green, went to the round pan string halter. Kathy rode her walk, talk canter the first day right.
Frank:The thing is, this is a horse that when we would do stuff with other horses when she was a Philly and she would stay in the barnyard while we were doing stuff with her mother and he put a halter on or put a bridle on she would do like this, another horse. Yeah.
Pat:She would walk between me I and trooper and I be straightening out the bridle to introduce it to trooper and she's putting her head in it.
Frank:So she got to the point where it was like you throw blankets on the whole bit but that was because she was was a correct horse taken out of her birth trauma the whole bit. And she was just always worked with him on those lines and it made just training and just so much easier. We had the same thing with horses that have been how to put it, that that we didn't do the breeding with but if we had show up at our place, we've done round pen work with them and we'd take one of our horses in and do round pen and the other horses are just standing on the outside, watching like their grazing and like they're not even paying attention. Next thing you know, you take the one out, you leave the gate open from the round pen and go and walk the horse in and put them in the stall when you turn around and go out, one of them is left out of the group and is standing in there like, okay, my turn, it's kind of like, it's my turn to be special and important and then when you shut the gate, it's like, okay and then you start doing the thing, all of a sudden they picked up on what the other ones do and they're over their grazing. They're like a bunch of people on the street yeah, oh no we're not really paying attention what you do but to keep an eye on you the whole so
Pat:we've experienced is we re birth the horse it restores the balance of the horse and so they're equally flexible and they have no memory of pain because there's no trigger points. I studied chiropractics and massage and a whole bunch of certifications and I walked away because as a horse trainer need a permanent solution so when you we have these horses straight, there's no reflexes in chiropractic so tell me, oh, well the lumbar needs to have this reflex and you need to have a Butiel rump reflex and go underneath the horse's girth line and you can lift up the withers okay because of the reflex. Well in our horses there's no reflex because there's no pain, so when you start to ride these horses they train up from zero to going over fences and 12 to 14 days.
Frank:And the other thing is going, you guys all know this as well and no dogs, cats they do have a memory of the past, but they choose to live in the present, so when they've got no pain, They're living exactly in the present, so that's, that's the easiest thing in the world.
Pat:And that's kind of what our our program is about is how can we shift the focus in our interaction in the development of animals, whether it's a dog or a horse cow or a goat, we've done this with goats, you know. It's just not like we're having this experience with our horses, we're having that with everything, blows me away.
Frank:Everything out of pain, everything you're well, Ronnie knows from last time at all I'm the guy that goes Hey the cost is cheaper, we're happy. I mean, like as long as you keep something out of pain, you're all around general life is better for yourself emotionally but also is you're not stressing about how much money you got to fork out to get this person in to take care of this problem and you're going to manifest that intent you can, you just make everybody's life generally all around good, if I can just manifest some hair that would be great listen, I've been manifesting it and it's not growing back here. You have to be more specific Frank. Trust me when you get specific, it really backfires okay, there you go.
Pat:The way I think about energy and the way Kathy works with energy or is perceiving it, we're on parallel conversations. There's more people out there that are looking at this holistic physical energy intention bridge and that we're actually working to a common goal, it's all taking us to the same place and I think that is something that needs to be validated more into give words to people and to also stand up and say, okay, well, I don't care what other people think, because this is my reality. I've been doing this reality now for 40 years and documented it for 20 and if I can do this so can other people and if people are already starting and you know they have no place to go, who do you talk to about your wild experiences with nature.
Ronnie:You can do it on the internet like we are.
Pat:So this is like this where we can get together is helpful.
Kathy:If it wasn't for this I certainly want to met Pat, so as much as it gets to slated you know, it's serving a purpose, how will you use it, my vision is that we get to a place where for me connection is massive because everything is connected, it's through the field, everything is connected. We're made up of space you know of nothingness and energy and that's it and that's the reality that the quantum physics says and the who knows whether other stuff will be found I don't know but for me it's about understanding the connection out and the connection in I've been sort of fascinated by Aboriginal peoples because they are the ones that have got this connection and if you look at their cultures, they're the peaceful ones because they're connected, they understand their balance with everything, that word again and I feel that we need, as a Western society to reconnect, to find our way back to that connection but then not Chuck away everything that we've discovered, you know, like you were saying about the internet, it's not a case of, well, everything modern is bad. People think, oh, we've got to go back to living sort of in mud huts and whatever, no I think a balance can be found where we can live and a connected life where we're in balance but we use the stuff that we've learned because everything is for a reason, it's how you use it, that is the difference.
Frank:Pat knows I always say everybody comes into your life even if you meet somebody for five minutes whatever the conversation was that you had with them for that five minutes, everybody comes into your life to teach us something. You learned something you gain knowledge from everybody, if it's from a waitress at a restaurant, even a kid, kids had the greatest knowledge in the world. Mean, they tell you things that you like okay but I thoroughly believe that everybody has a piece of knowledge that when we all interact you will find that little grain that is little bit more into you. Everybody fills up with a little bit more knowledge from everybody. And that's key, that's key to actually being damn human for a change.
Pat:So number one I don't make claim to having a tribe, but I am recognized within the shamonic community and within shamanism, there is really no new science. We are complete and we hold the wisdom of everything that's already happened on this planet and we are in an artificial simulation that in shamanism, you walk two paths in life and our goal is to put the two paths together so that we have balance. So here's a question, what if the science that we ignore, we call it magic, we call it myth, we call it snake oil, fantasy fairy tales. What if within those storylines, within that oral tradition, that it is the description of the very mechanisms that support the history of the human race. And what if we already have a preexisting knowledge of science, but not the science. In science and Latin, the root form for science, a skier breaks down into this section but cutting apart to put into pieces and that's exactly what our science does, it takes the holistic history of mythology or within nature and it breaks it down and it disconnects it. So if you go back to the traditional way of thinking, whether it's the traditions that you find in religious text or in oral traditions of original people, they're always putting us back inside ourselves to show us that there's a spark of life, a star seed, a brilliance and within that brilliance, that is the escape route from this simulation that is teaching people that we must survive in a state of pain and suffering. So for me there have been existences of different dimensions, if you want to put this way or different timelines of technology, there's so much evidence on this planet that our ancestors understood the magic of the magnetic fields, the tiller fields or how the body worked, they were doing massage and acupuncture, they had the human body mapped out the very beginning of the Chinese empire. How does that happen, you sit back and you start to look at the history and yes we can reproduce some of it but we can't reproduce all of it. So within the ancient or traditional or original peoples storyline, human genetics is the history book and the science of magic of this place. So I think that's the difference between people who are looking at science, now you can go into quantum physics and new physics, and you can say, oh yes this is explaining spiritual wisdom but you are trying to break new ground without understanding your history and that's where you go back into shamanism or in to your original writings of different teaching books and you find yourself. And that's why I think we are amazing creatures. We were created uniquely and we have amazing abilities that our animals really are hoping we wake up and start to use.
Kathy:I think you speak a lot of sense there Pat because the as you were talking about the new science so many of the terms and the way they're looking at it are reflected from ancient text. You know, you want to find the answer look within and it's the same. They say you know the holographic universe or whatever you want to call it or whatever you want to look at. I so agree that the scientific no the discoveries they've made, where they cannot explain how certain things have been done thousands of years ago. There was an experiment done over here to try and get the blue stones from which is just south of me here over to Stonehenge. They sunk, I mean, with all the technology that they've got now they try to recreate it, they try to think of the way that it was actually done and the first experiment they did, they got to the rest of the channel and sunk, the second one they did a much better job and they were trying to work out, you know, the police system and the rollers and what manpower they have, I don't know, but on our farm here, We've got a four and a half thousand year old circle. It's not a stone circle, it's a crop mark basically and it blows my brain because it's 40 meters wide and in the middle, there would have been a hill which they would have made with the barrel chamber underneath and their man hours and the energy that was expended to build these and we're finding out they were all around this place, not only in this valley, but close by and it's just the energy they spent to do this and interestingly, I had somebody call round he did sort of walk around it and he was marking places out and he'd worked out the lay line that was running straight through the middle of the actual circle and the burial mound. They knew so much and they did so much, I absolutely agree with you. You know, I can understand what you're saying there but that there's so much ancient knowledge that we've lost and something happened, they got wiped and now we're being rebuilding but as you said, we're building abstract concepts with nothing is connected. You know, the only way to explain everything is to break it into individual parts and never look at the whole as how they all work together, it's all that's broken, well mend that and then somehow miraculously that's meant to amend the whole thing of course it doesn't work but yeah, it's a really interesting thing.
Pat:I think people that work with horses have this great opportunity to expand and experiment with their personal awareness, I find that the less I think around a horse, the clearer, the information I receive and that way the horse has actually got the ability to share information because the Satori Institute in California with the math heart Institute, I think it was in 2008 did research and it was proven that horses send out telepathic wavelengths that are received in the human right brain, so that horses are able to influence ideas that come into who we are into our processor and direct us to concepts or resources, that, that horse is very aware that it needs. That is a published paper you can look it up at heart map Institute online, Google it, so that says that there's a measurable energy transmission and it doesn't come to the left brain because there's no bridge from the left brain to the heart. They will come into the right brain because the right brain is connected to the heart and it also bridges to the left brain. So we are led by our horses, if we are not cluttering with, what if, fear thought, oh I need to go over here, oh gosh, you did something wrong there. If you just sit and just allow nature to make noises and whatever comes to you, write it down, who knows you might actually have a great concept given to you.
Frank:We are herd of horses, we got a piece of property on our south over here that has a rise that goes over the horse would be over on the other side of the rice, you just walk in a pasture, just stand there, all of a sudden they've sent one up over the hill, could take a look and see who as soon as they walked in the field. You know, you're 20 acres away from each other and all of a sudden it's like, yeah and so do you have in here next, you know, here comes the rest of the herd and they come right up on you. It's like, Hey, what do you want, it's like, how did you even know I was here? That's how far out their signal is that and they let you know when it's gonna rain 30 minutes before the storm ever gets to the property. They show up, we know when it's going to be a thunderstorm, they all show up, it's wide open field and they parked themselves right here across the, from our living room window, they park themselves at the field and you can sit here and when it's raining, you can tell what wind speed is and what direction it's coming from because the way there are just funny, they know way more than we ever will.
Ronnie:Loved that. When you said about they send us messages so they can get what they need.
Frank:We enjoy our hobby, we enjoy our horses, we rode like gangbusters. When we're younger, we both have ridden the same horse. My quarter horse got him years ago, I rode him, he threw me, I hit the ground, got up, shook my head. She was going, you know what happened, this, this and this. I said, that's great, fine and dandy because, you know, I say it so quick. Never knew it was happening. This horse was like and it was over with. I got up and I said, you know what? I've been in martial arts contest and a whole bit, I said, I've never had my bell rang like that, I probably had like a mild concussion, we're fine. What was about a five or six days later you got on a horse. She gets on the horse, I'm Bush hogging, turn around and look her back, make sure she's okay. Yeah, she gets on him. She's riding him in a round pen so now look back one, go around. I got a horse standing at one side of the round pin, empty saddle, and I got a wife on the ground, by the time I got back over, I walked up the horses going, oh, hell, oh hell. I really screwed up and you're okay buddy and I looked at her and I went Pat she goes, yeah, I went, you want help getting up off the ground? She goes, what are you talking about, you're on the ground, she goes, I am, I went. Yeah, she goes, yeah okay. So I sat her up a little bit, she looked and I go, you okay, yeah. She said, okay. I go, just sit here for a minute, I'm going to go take this horse. So I walked over and I grabbed him and started walk, across round pen. Hey, yeah, I'm fixing to ride that horse, honestly Pat this horse bucked you off, when that happened. I don't know that, so I had this little conversation going on that this horse is the reason why the two of us look at a horse to go no not getting on that one. We train horses and we do a lot more behavioral and it's like once we find out exactly what the problem is Pat, tell her that, that was the one that dumped me.
Pat:Well he dumped us but he had a separated shoulder and this was before we were as advanced as we are now. Like Tingey was like 32 years old, okay but he came from Ramsar, North Carolina, North Carolina. I'm from Canada, I don't know where I am in the United States anyway we were invited up there to work with this horse because they couldn't even get a handle on him. And his halter he was a young horse in his halter was growing into his nose and they couldn't catch him and they couldn't handle them and just to let you know how in tune horses are okay, we have all these people trying to rope this horse and run them around the round pan and tier him out and try to catch him with food and he's like not happening because you tripped me and you dislocated my shoulder and I don't trust you and we didn't know that at the time. So he goes in to the round pan with a young stallion who is very defiant and I sat on the edge of the round pen and I help read the horse and Frank went in and worked with the horse. Now the trick is, is not to have any anxiety, any fear, to ground and not to be human, to be invisible and it took what, 35 minutes, 35 minutes and the next thing you know, this horse comes in and is with Frank and Frank is still not reaching to touch him and the horse now wants to be touched. So what does this horse do. He puts the forehead on Frank's chest and touches him and walks around Frank, keeping his forehead in contact with Frank's body. That is unheard of, that was a horse who said, oh my God you see me, I trust you. Can I, I hurt, can you fix my head and so Frank was able to strip the halter and put a brand new halter on a horse and then three weeks later were going back up there, cause they're going up Frank, you need to come up here and get your dam horse and so we had to make another 10 hour drive back, you have to go get a horse that came home with us and I'm not lying, a horse that's never been on a horse trailer. We opened up the horse trailer that morning and I'm not lying bam right. In a horse trailer set the thing they said, holy cow, I guess he wanted to go, heading home. He rode home for six hours in the horse trailer. We started the ballenced horse project before it is like that we had 21 donated horses, they were either unrideable, really broke, like broke to the point where they had negative prognosis from veterinary universities. We also had three horses that came in under euthanization order, under public safety as dangerous horses. these horses came from a different state and stayed with us. All of these horses either were aggressive, terrified lame or having absolutely zero chance of ever having a positive life, all of these horses, the lame horses, all of them became sound, all of these horses shifted behavior from, undesirable to, wow, can we touch. We've got two or three you can't put them out in a herd of horses, can't put them out with a group and I want to taste that, that we've got a herd of horses that you stick them out in the field together, there's not a problem. We got horses clients have brought in and there'll be screaming, Winnie and when they get off the trailer looking for friends and I got to herd right across, they just lift your hands look, and they go, rookie, go back eight kind of deal. The bad part is, after our clients had left our horse for a week or two, when they come to pick up their horses, their horses. I am not leaving here. Yeah. Horses are getting in our truck, leaving this place.
Ronnie:We need to get you guys ever to the UK. Would'nt that be cool if we could meet up one day
Frank:Here's the deal, now I come to the UK there's two things, one will be to see you guys, that's going to be the top priority.
Kathy:Correct, correct, right yeah okay and then the other one is I want to go to the isle of man, I want to go do that, oh yeah, there you've come to the right place. And then, I want to go north to Inverness, I got cousins and family live towards there I haven't seen in quite numerous years, but yeah.
Pat:We'll just see how it unwinds.
Ronnie:Kathy do you want to say anything else, do you want to share, I think you've covered it covered quite a few areas, it's been wonderful um no I'm just, that's what I'm all about is intention and energy and connection, so everything we've been talking about here, brilliant. I will tell you if you guys come and see us, come stay here and everything. We have marvelous weather in the fall and usually in the winter. So what is that, the us in the summer, it's a lovely 85 degrees Fahrenheit outside but it already feels like it's getting close to a hundred because of the humidity. You don't take a bath in the morning to go do, go outside and do chores and come back in, cause you'll be taking another bath. Thanks for sharing that with this Frank. Hey, underneath all these clothes were all naked, anyway,
Pat:it was a joy and it's always a pleasure and what Kathy brings to people is really important, if you don't have access to Us, use Kathy because she's really opens the door and then Ronnie, Ronnie actually hit me in our first interview and she talked about the Creston of horses that stand around me and that reading was a hundred percent right on, so as a group you're looking at some pretty amazing people and we all come with different gifts, I guess you could say. And when we put them together, it's dynamite, so I hope that everybody enjoyed this conversation, I think it's delightful.
Frank:This is a question for anybody watching this, why don't you guys come out and let Ronnie interview you or make contact with Kathy or Pat I mean I'm goofy or in hell and I'm on a damn town from this thing, wherever this technology, it's a computer Frank, I can't kick it as screaming in a 21st century she'll tell you, I'm the kind of guy that still likes 1970 cars and the whole thing.
Ronnie:There's nothing more that, I've really enjoyed tonight and it's been lovely having on Frank it's yeah, make me laugh and make me smile. Really interesting, well I find it interesting and whoever's attracted or drawn to them are the right people, the ones that want to find a spark within themself and that's what it's about, it's about sharing, sharing viewpoints and you don't always have to agree and it's not going to be exactly right because it's your individual learning at your stage, your growth and that's okay because that's what life is all about but there's a definite coming together of minds and wanting to see changes but for humans as well, because at the end of the day, what, what you're doing for animals we need it, we need it big time because like you said, we need to be there to help them to facilitate what they need. They know what they need but they need us to get it for them or to access it if that's the right word but thank you so so much and we need them yeah we do definitely, definitely thank you so much for spending the time with me tonight and it's worked out okay internet, a few glitches, that's fine, from Welsh Wales. Yeah. Right guys to don't disappear I'm going to just take you out and say goodbye to everybody, Everybody, we'll just have a quick chat before you go if that's okay. Okay say bye to everybody. You know, my cheeks hurt from laughing so much and it's so nice to have Kathy and Pat and Frank on together. Synchronicities are amazing, absolutely amazing. So thank you very much and if you need to contact or ask them any questions, they'll be more than happy to reply, so please do so. I really appreciate if you'd share cause it's about getting information out, what you do with it is entirely up to you. This is not about pushing my views or anybody else's views, it's just opening a doorway and you can make your own choices and your animals and your friends and yourself will thank you because it starts with you, thank you again, whoever you are, wherever you are in the world, take care and a big hug from from me. Take care for now and thank you bye.